What Stylus setup would you use?

[[Ry...]]

Hey Folks,

So we have a new part coming in that I need to create a program for.
There is an ID seal groove that I need to measure the intersection points. (See attached dwg. and highlighted detail area)
I have a Duramax with the XXT head.
What probe setup would you use?
My initial thought was an L-probe, but the smallest I can find (626103-0080-418) has an overall length of 13mm(0.511") which is obviously larger than the 0.457 bore.
My next thought was to use the adjustable knuckle (626103-6180-020) on an extension and than a common straight probe we have in stock. However, I'm hesitant to use a knuckle as I've had issues in the past with aligning to machine center and then the weight causing some probing errors at odd angles. As well as it loosening up without being noticed, and then as soon as you touch it, it has to be recalibrated.

My old standby is to use metrology putty, but that it time consuming and inconsistent.

So I'm hoping there is a setup that I might be missing that might work well in this situation.

Thanks for any and all help
Ryan

DWG.pdf

[[Ja...]]

Could you use a larger diameter probe that won't shank out?

[[Mi...]]

I think any vertical stylus with a tip big enough to avoid shanking will be too big to measure the angled surfaces. You might be able to get a self-centering probing point to calculate a diameter, but that's about it. Disc probes will get you better reach, but they still probably won't probe the angled surface since they'll be contacting on the edge of the disc.

[[Ow...]]

Looks like a good time to purchase a Zeiss Metrotom.
If you make a trillion of the part's, you might make enough profit to buy one 🤣

[[Cl...]]

For stuff like this, I use itpstyli for custom styli. They do good work, but are expensive.

http://www.itpstyli.com

[[Mi...]]

I second ITP for strange custom stuff, but then it becomes the question of if it's worth it.

I'm curious as to why this needs to be CMM checked? without knowing more I would say that should simply be measured with a contour tracer. We have a pair of MahrSurf XC20's for things like this.

[[Re...]]

A lot more options with a VAST head. I use this type of L-stylus by Zeiss with a rotary table on my Accura for such features.

0.5MM L Y+.jpg

[[Ry...]]

Thanks for the info guys,
Reid, I like that setup and is what I am looking for, however I have the XXT head so need the small M3 thread size. Where did you acquire that probe?

As for ITP, in terms of expensive, how much are we talking for something like what Reid has but for the M3 thread?

Michael, there is not a requirement to check it on the CMM, its more of a nice to have. As well, it allows my shop guys to be able to measure these features with a program rather than manually. For stuff like this, I use metrology putty, but its time consuming and not always consistent.
This particular part are proto-types at the moment. So only a handful ordered. It may turn to production run in the future.

I've never used a Contour tracer. What do those roughly cost?

But in general, I have a lot of parts with small features like this, where it would be nice to have the CMM measure them. I have used Disc probes in the past, however I don't believe the XXT head support Discs.

Thanks for all your help
Ryan

[[Mi...]]

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I just paid 315 USD to get some special angle "cubes" from ITP. 6-way with 30 deg inclination for a part with a pattern of angled holes around a bore. To give some reference on price, not insane but maybe more than should be spent on a prototype for such a specialized probe.

Attached is the kind of thing you can use a tracer for. Yes, all of those could be measured on a CMM, but the time involved isn't worth it. Once it's setup and programmed that particular measurement takes about 20 seconds on our Mahr unit. We have a 30 year old Mitutoyo - running windows 98 - that the same measurement would take 2-3 minutes on.

I wasn't part of the purchase so I'm not sure what the unit costs.

contour.PNG

[[Re...]]

Ryan,
Zeiss does not have a stylus system like the one that I have, with a M3 thread. I paid something like $280 for my M5 stylus. However as others have suggested, ITP will make one to design. They call it a T-Probe with one arm on their design a probe page.

[[Er...]]

This uses the cone extension. I'm not sure which way the 30 degree version is cut. The pictures look generic to me.
626103-6020-045

Zeiss sells a "blank" for the XXT as well.
626103-6020-000