[Me...] Posted September 22, 2021 Share Posted September 22, 2021 Guten Tag Zusammen, wie müßte eure Meinung nach die Auswertung aussehen ? 1x Position 0,2 1x Rechtwikligkeit 0,2 zu A 😱 ? 1x Parallelität 0,07 zu A Danke im voraus !Beispiel.JPG Link to comment https://qualityforum.zeiss.com/topic/11870-schnittebenen-orientierungsebenen-gt-indikatoren-lt/ Share on other sites More sharing options...
[Da...] Posted September 22, 2021 Share Posted September 22, 2021 Das bedeutet, dass die Toleranzzone nicht kreisförmig (bzw. zylindrisch) ist (fehlendes Ø) und auch nicht quadratisch, sondern rechteckig. Die Toleranzzone hat eine Größe von 0,2x0,07 mm, wobei die kürzere Seite parallel zu Bezug A orientiert ist. Die Begrenzungen der Toleranzzone sind somit rechteckig angeordnete Linien, wenn du nur auf einer Ebene auswertest, oder besser Ebenen, wenn du die Bohrungen als Zylinder misst. Link to comment https://qualityforum.zeiss.com/topic/11870-schnittebenen-orientierungsebenen-gt-indikatoren-lt/#findComment-58982 Share on other sites More sharing options...
[Da...] Posted September 22, 2021 Share Posted September 22, 2021 This seems rather over toleranced to me. I have never seen a tolerance like this. So you have a basic of 4,32 from A and a basic of 3,15 from each other, are you saying that the 0,2 applies to the 4,32 and the 0,07 to the 3,15? Link to comment https://qualityforum.zeiss.com/topic/11870-schnittebenen-orientierungsebenen-gt-indikatoren-lt/#findComment-58984 Share on other sites More sharing options...
[Ma...] Posted September 22, 2021 Share Posted September 22, 2021 We had training on this year ago and it's relatively new to us, but i think Daniel is right about rectangular tolerance. It tells you which number is in which direction. Tomorrow i'll know more by reading training docs. Link to comment https://qualityforum.zeiss.com/topic/11870-schnittebenen-orientierungsebenen-gt-indikatoren-lt/#findComment-58986 Share on other sites More sharing options...
[Da...] Posted September 22, 2021 Share Posted September 22, 2021 Please sign in to view this quote. No, the tolerances apply to both holes the same way. Those are ISO GPS symbols, that were introduced in 2011, I think, and they give you ways to refine tolerances to make them even more unambiguous. Link to comment https://qualityforum.zeiss.com/topic/11870-schnittebenen-orientierungsebenen-gt-indikatoren-lt/#findComment-58988 Share on other sites More sharing options...
[Me...] Posted September 23, 2021 Author Share Posted September 23, 2021 Please sign in to view this quote. Danke für das Feedback. Das die Toleranz nicht kreisförmig ist, ist mir bewußt. Gibt es eine Literatur wo ich nachlesen kann dass das eine rechteckige Toleranz ist ? Link to comment https://qualityforum.zeiss.com/topic/11870-schnittebenen-orientierungsebenen-gt-indikatoren-lt/#findComment-58990 Share on other sites More sharing options...
[Da...] Posted September 23, 2021 Share Posted September 23, 2021 Please sign in to view this quote. ISO 1101:2017, maybe also 2012 version as Daniel suggests. Search for Orientation planes. Where is datum B? Link to comment https://qualityforum.zeiss.com/topic/11870-schnittebenen-orientierungsebenen-gt-indikatoren-lt/#findComment-58992 Share on other sites More sharing options...
[Ma...] Posted September 23, 2021 Share Posted September 23, 2021 As mentioned above - it's ISO 1101:2017 Here is example Link to comment https://qualityforum.zeiss.com/topic/11870-schnittebenen-orientierungsebenen-gt-indikatoren-lt/#findComment-58994 Share on other sites More sharing options...
[Me...] Posted September 23, 2021 Author Share Posted September 23, 2021 Please sign in to view this quote. Beispiel_2.JPG Link to comment https://qualityforum.zeiss.com/topic/11870-schnittebenen-orientierungsebenen-gt-indikatoren-lt/#findComment-58996 Share on other sites More sharing options...
[Me...] Posted September 23, 2021 Author Share Posted September 23, 2021 Please sign in to view this quote. I am of the opinion that if 0.07 is dimensioned to each other then "CZ" should still be there, right?Beispiel_3.JPG Link to comment https://qualityforum.zeiss.com/topic/11870-schnittebenen-orientierungsebenen-gt-indikatoren-lt/#findComment-58998 Share on other sites More sharing options...
[Ma...] Posted September 23, 2021 Share Posted September 23, 2021 Please sign in to view this quote. In author case - is Pos 0.07 for left-right and 0.2 for up-down ( for view in initial post ) Your attachment is circular tolerance differentiated by bases. I am not sure if CZ can be there on that place, but i would read it as pattern in this case. Link to comment https://qualityforum.zeiss.com/topic/11870-schnittebenen-orientierungsebenen-gt-indikatoren-lt/#findComment-59000 Share on other sites More sharing options...
[Da...] Posted September 23, 2021 Share Posted September 23, 2021 Please sign in to view this quote. If this is by ISO GPS, remember, there is no composite tolerancing. You need to report 4 individual characteristics, 2 for each hole (preferably cylinder), all separatelly. Link to comment https://qualityforum.zeiss.com/topic/11870-schnittebenen-orientierungsebenen-gt-indikatoren-lt/#findComment-59002 Share on other sites More sharing options...
[Me...] Posted September 23, 2021 Author Share Posted September 23, 2021 OK, aber wie sollte man das ausgeben ? Zylinder 1 (unten) Position 0,2 als Achselement 24,05 ±0,1 4,32 ±0,035 Rechtwinkligkeit zu A 0,2 (wie soll das gehen ?) Parallelität zu A 0,07 Zylinder 2 (oben) Position 0,2 als Achselement 27,2 ±0,1 4,32 ±0,035 3,15 ±0,035 zu Zylinder 1 Rechtwinkligkeit zu A 0,2 (wie soll das gehen ?) Parallelität zu A 0,07 ???3.JPG Link to comment https://qualityforum.zeiss.com/topic/11870-schnittebenen-orientierungsebenen-gt-indikatoren-lt/#findComment-59004 Share on other sites More sharing options...
[Ma...] Posted September 23, 2021 Share Posted September 23, 2021 Please sign in to view this quote. Hold on. You are right with tolerances - that's good. But perpendicularity and parallelism are used only to tell you in which direction is tolerance band. Otherwise you wouldn't know from where you have 0.2 and where 0.07. In other words you just report 2x TP with rectangle tolerance and used base A and B as usually. I wonder if cylinder 2 is or not referenced from cylinder 1. Link to comment https://qualityforum.zeiss.com/topic/11870-schnittebenen-orientierungsebenen-gt-indikatoren-lt/#findComment-59006 Share on other sites More sharing options...
[Me...] Posted September 23, 2021 Author Share Posted September 23, 2021 Please sign in to view this quote. Also wird die Rechtwinkligkeit und Parallelität " NICHT" ausgegeben ? Aber woher weiß ich das die Toleranz 0,2 für 24,05 ist und 0,07 für 4,32 ? Link to comment https://qualityforum.zeiss.com/topic/11870-schnittebenen-orientierungsebenen-gt-indikatoren-lt/#findComment-59008 Share on other sites More sharing options...
[Ma...] Posted September 23, 2021 Share Posted September 23, 2021 Exactly - output is only 2x TP. If base A is plane X+ then you have tolerance band X=0,07 and Y=0,2. I don't have picture with TP - just with parallelism, but watch closely at my first post with att. from where you have dimensioned tolerances for parallelism. Link to comment https://qualityforum.zeiss.com/topic/11870-schnittebenen-orientierungsebenen-gt-indikatoren-lt/#findComment-59010 Share on other sites More sharing options...
[Da...] Posted September 23, 2021 Share Posted September 23, 2021 Please sign in to view this quote. Weil die entsprechenden Schnittebenenindikatoren auf der Höhe des jeweiligen Bezugsrahmens liegen: die 0,2 rechtwinklig zu A, die 0,07 parallel zu A. Dass dazwischen der Bezug A|B für beide Toleranzen zusammengezogen wurde, ändert daran nichts, dass die Schnittebenenindikatoren nur für die jeweilige Zeile gelten. Link to comment https://qualityforum.zeiss.com/topic/11870-schnittebenen-orientierungsebenen-gt-indikatoren-lt/#findComment-59012 Share on other sites More sharing options...
[Me...] Posted September 23, 2021 Author Share Posted September 23, 2021 Please sign in to view this quote. Also Du meinst das die Rechtwinkligkeit und Parallelität separat ausgewertet werden müssen ? Link to comment https://qualityforum.zeiss.com/topic/11870-schnittebenen-orientierungsebenen-gt-indikatoren-lt/#findComment-59014 Share on other sites More sharing options...
[Da...] Posted September 23, 2021 Share Posted September 23, 2021 Nein, noch mal: Es werden überhaupt keine Rechtwinkligkeiten und Parallelitäten ausgewertet, nur zwei Positionen mit rechtwinklig angeordneten Toleranzzonen, die 0,2x0,07 mm groß sind. Innerhalb dieser Toleranzzonen müssen die jeweiligen Achsen der beiden Bohrungen zu finden sein. Nur Positionen, KEINE Rechtwinkligkeiten, KEINE Parallelitäten. Link to comment https://qualityforum.zeiss.com/topic/11870-schnittebenen-orientierungsebenen-gt-indikatoren-lt/#findComment-59016 Share on other sites More sharing options...
[Me...] Posted September 23, 2021 Author Share Posted September 23, 2021 Please sign in to view this quote. Thank you for your help Danke für Eure Hilfe Guten Morgen Daniel, kannst mir sagen wo ich das von Dir beschriebene verhalten bei Toleranz nachschlagen kann ? Danke Link to comment https://qualityforum.zeiss.com/topic/11870-schnittebenen-orientierungsebenen-gt-indikatoren-lt/#findComment-59018 Share on other sites More sharing options...
[Da...] Posted October 13, 2021 Share Posted October 13, 2021 Please sign in to view this quote. I would probably do it like this: Edit: updated to see CAD in older versions too. Please sign in to view this quote. You might do it like Martin suggests also. I'm not 100% sure right now. Link to comment https://qualityforum.zeiss.com/topic/11870-schnittebenen-orientierungsebenen-gt-indikatoren-lt/#findComment-59020 Share on other sites More sharing options...
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