[Re...] Posted June 11, 2021 Share Posted June 11, 2021 Can someone tell me if this is a valid callout? Not sure about the modifier placed on the datum.Capture.JPG Link to comment https://qualityforum.zeiss.com/topic/12702-perpendicularity-with-modifier/ Share on other sites More sharing options...
[SH...] Posted June 11, 2021 Share Posted June 11, 2021 Yes, it is a valid call out, you will get bonus tolerance when the feature deviate from its MMC condition. How do you measure datum A? Gear pro?. Link to comment https://qualityforum.zeiss.com/topic/12702-perpendicularity-with-modifier/#findComment-63718 Share on other sites More sharing options...
[Re...] Posted June 11, 2021 Author Share Posted June 11, 2021 Shabu, Calypso does not allow for an input of the modifier in the characteristic. That is what made me think that it was not a valid callout. I guess that it needs to be formulated. Link to comment https://qualityforum.zeiss.com/topic/12702-perpendicularity-with-modifier/#findComment-63720 Share on other sites More sharing options...
[Re...] Posted June 11, 2021 Author Share Posted June 11, 2021 Shabu, Calypso does not allow for an input of the modifier in the characteristic. That is what made me think that it was not a valid callout. I guess that it needs to be formulated. Link to comment https://qualityforum.zeiss.com/topic/12702-perpendicularity-with-modifier/#findComment-63722 Share on other sites More sharing options...
[SH...] Posted June 11, 2021 Share Posted June 11, 2021 Ohh it MMB !! did not keep an eye on it well. Link to comment https://qualityforum.zeiss.com/topic/12702-perpendicularity-with-modifier/#findComment-63724 Share on other sites More sharing options...
[Jo...] Posted June 11, 2021 Share Posted June 11, 2021 I believe axial runout would yield the same result. I don't see how a modifier bonus can be calculated though. Link to comment https://qualityforum.zeiss.com/topic/12702-perpendicularity-with-modifier/#findComment-63726 Share on other sites More sharing options...
[Re...] Posted June 11, 2021 Author Share Posted June 11, 2021 If the datum and the feature was reversed, then one could simply apply the modifier to the major diameter of the spline. But a different tolerance would need to represent the perpendicularity. However the form error in the face plane would no longer be included in the perpendicularity. I'm thinking that I need to just formulate. But would like to know if this is a legitimate callout before continuing with a formulation? If this is a legitimate callout, why does Calypso not give me the ability to input the modifier? Link to comment https://qualityforum.zeiss.com/topic/12702-perpendicularity-with-modifier/#findComment-63728 Share on other sites More sharing options...
[Jo...] Posted June 11, 2021 Share Posted June 11, 2021 Please sign in to view this quote. I don't think the "bonus" amounts to anything . If the diameter was .0017 larger, the part could only tilt half of that (.00085" across the width. That minute angle projected to the face is how you calculate the ability to shift about Datum axis ? I guess they baked in a flatness tolerance as dimensioned. Link to comment https://qualityforum.zeiss.com/topic/12702-perpendicularity-with-modifier/#findComment-63730 Share on other sites More sharing options...
[Me...] Posted June 11, 2021 Share Posted June 11, 2021 If you’re going to use a formula, then you’ll want to use the angularity characteristic. This allows you to adjust the angle of the tolerance zone based on the datum feature’s departure from MMB. This will also maintain the .001 form control on the surface. Please sign in to view this quote. Because Calypso is falling behind in its ability to handle basic geometric controls. But hey, at least you can create pretty reports... 🙄 Link to comment https://qualityforum.zeiss.com/topic/12702-perpendicularity-with-modifier/#findComment-63732 Share on other sites More sharing options...
[An...] Posted June 12, 2021 Share Posted June 12, 2021 _ Link to comment https://qualityforum.zeiss.com/topic/12702-perpendicularity-with-modifier/#findComment-63734 Share on other sites More sharing options...
[Ri...] Posted June 14, 2021 Share Posted June 14, 2021 Please sign in to view this quote. I would agree with that statement in regards to Position, but this isn't a "basic geometric control". I'd be interested in seeing a software using mmb on a runout. Link to comment https://qualityforum.zeiss.com/topic/12702-perpendicularity-with-modifier/#findComment-63736 Share on other sites More sharing options...
[Ri...] Posted June 14, 2021 Share Posted June 14, 2021 Not even the mighty GOM Inspect can handle it. 🙁 I'm too lazy to fire up Kotem to see if it can. Link to comment https://qualityforum.zeiss.com/topic/12702-perpendicularity-with-modifier/#findComment-63738 Share on other sites More sharing options...
[Me...] Posted June 14, 2021 Share Posted June 14, 2021 Please sign in to view this quote. How so? Is it because Calypso has not been (for the time being) programmed to do it .? Please sign in to view this quote. Probably because datum features for runout controls are only allowed to be specified at RMB... 😎 Link to comment https://qualityforum.zeiss.com/topic/12702-perpendicularity-with-modifier/#findComment-63740 Share on other sites More sharing options...
[Aa...] Posted June 14, 2021 Share Posted June 14, 2021 Please sign in to view this quote. I would bet my week's pay that it can. But then, I'm only part time while on Chemo. Link to comment https://qualityforum.zeiss.com/topic/12702-perpendicularity-with-modifier/#findComment-63742 Share on other sites More sharing options...
[Aa...] Posted June 14, 2021 Share Posted June 14, 2021 Andreas, Are you saying that an MMB primary datum feature of size allows for rotation off parallel to its own Actual Mating Envelope for Perpendicularity FCFs, but not Position? If so, please support this with references. Link to comment https://qualityforum.zeiss.com/topic/12702-perpendicularity-with-modifier/#findComment-63744 Share on other sites More sharing options...
[Ri...] Posted June 14, 2021 Share Posted June 14, 2021 Please sign in to view this quote. You are contradicting yourself. It can handle the Runout easily with no material modifier. Link to comment https://qualityforum.zeiss.com/topic/12702-perpendicularity-with-modifier/#findComment-63746 Share on other sites More sharing options...
[Ri...] Posted June 14, 2021 Share Posted June 14, 2021 Please sign in to view this quote. It cannot. Link to comment https://qualityforum.zeiss.com/topic/12702-perpendicularity-with-modifier/#findComment-63748 Share on other sites More sharing options...
[Me...] Posted June 14, 2021 Share Posted June 14, 2021 Please sign in to view this quote. Please sign in to view this quote. Please sign in to view this quote. Explain how I contradicted myself... Link to comment https://qualityforum.zeiss.com/topic/12702-perpendicularity-with-modifier/#findComment-63750 Share on other sites More sharing options...
[Aa...] Posted June 14, 2021 Share Posted June 14, 2021 O Contrar! Link to comment https://qualityforum.zeiss.com/topic/12702-perpendicularity-with-modifier/#findComment-63752 Share on other sites More sharing options...
[Ri...] Posted June 14, 2021 Share Posted June 14, 2021 Please sign in to view this quote. They should push that to Zone3 then. That's what I tested it in. I don't have the Evolve software installed. Lol. Link to comment https://qualityforum.zeiss.com/topic/12702-perpendicularity-with-modifier/#findComment-63754 Share on other sites More sharing options...
[Ja...] Posted June 14, 2021 Share Posted June 14, 2021 Please sign in to view this quote. This is checking runout? I don't think gd&t allows datum modifiers on a runout control. Link to comment https://qualityforum.zeiss.com/topic/12702-perpendicularity-with-modifier/#findComment-63756 Share on other sites More sharing options...
[Aa...] Posted June 14, 2021 Share Posted June 14, 2021 Funny, I've never heard of this Zone3 you speak of. From what I can gather from the interwebs, it's typically used with OGP systems. (Not surprising, since QVI owns both OGP and Kotem.) Link to comment https://qualityforum.zeiss.com/topic/12702-perpendicularity-with-modifier/#findComment-63758 Share on other sites More sharing options...
[Ri...] Posted June 14, 2021 Share Posted June 14, 2021 Please sign in to view this quote. Yeah - Zone3 uses the Kotem software for all of the GD&T. You used to have to export your data out of the software into the Kotem software, but now it is integrated. It looks like Caligo will allow you to select it, but I'd need to test it as Caligo will allow you to put a modifier on anything. Lol. Link to comment https://qualityforum.zeiss.com/topic/12702-perpendicularity-with-modifier/#findComment-63760 Share on other sites More sharing options...
[Aa...] Posted June 14, 2021 Share Posted June 14, 2021 Please sign in to view this quote. Nope. The OP was about Perpendicularity. You're right that runout does not allow for datum modifiers. Link to comment https://qualityforum.zeiss.com/topic/12702-perpendicularity-with-modifier/#findComment-63762 Share on other sites More sharing options...
[Ri...] Posted June 14, 2021 Share Posted June 14, 2021 Please sign in to view this quote. Ah - yes. I did this wrong. I got stuck in Runout - which the way this is toleranced is functionally the same. Either way, yes GOM Inspect can handle this. Link to comment https://qualityforum.zeiss.com/topic/12702-perpendicularity-with-modifier/#findComment-63764 Share on other sites More sharing options...
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