[Do...] Posted May 18, 2021 Share Posted May 18, 2021 I have a part that when programming the BF bore pattern of the three holes highlighted, it is a little confusing as to what should be done with the rotation and translation. I set my best fit to "view tolerance" and based on everything I have read or could find on the subject matter, I would untick both "rotation & translation" since my DRF is fully constrained. Am I correct? If there wasn't a datum -C- reference then I would think I could only rotate around -B-. Any insight on how to determine when to use translation and rotation would be great.Screenshot 2021-05-18 152623.jpg Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
[SH...] Posted May 19, 2021 Share Posted May 19, 2021 Your DRF is not completely constrained, you can translation the co ordinate system. You can tick the translation check box. But your datum C is a datum target and not easy to measure. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
[An...] Posted May 19, 2021 Share Posted May 19, 2021 _ Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
[Ma...] Posted May 19, 2021 Share Posted May 19, 2021 I don't think you can use pattern. You should report 3x position - only in this case you can use MMC bonus. Andreas mentioned wrong usage of C1 - because of B(M) C1 is moving. But i don't think that this will be a big deal. Unless you will deal with part on edges of tolerances. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
[Da...] Posted May 19, 2021 Share Posted May 19, 2021 Please sign in to view this quote. Andreas, Calypso should be able to handle this situation right. Right? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
[Da...] Posted May 19, 2021 Share Posted May 19, 2021 Please sign in to view this quote. I think we can assume this is by ASME, so report 1x position of combined (if that's the word) cylinders .330/.320 and 1x position of cylinder .520/.510. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
[Ma...] Posted May 19, 2021 Share Posted May 19, 2021 Please sign in to view this quote. How you handle different tolerances? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
[Da...] Posted May 19, 2021 Share Posted May 19, 2021 Please sign in to view this quote. Oh, sorry, I still stand behind I wrote, but I phrased it badly. So the left position callout should be reported from combined cylinders. Both cylinders being .330/.320. Both being 1.75" from datum B (one behind another). The right side position callout should be reported separately. I would like to know the callout for the middle hole (or is it boss?). Donny? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
[Ma...] Posted May 19, 2021 Share Posted May 19, 2021 Please sign in to view this quote. My bad - i don't use pattern much, so now i realized that there is option to enter tolerance per element. No using ASME here, so next one up on me 🤣 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
[An...] Posted May 19, 2021 Share Posted May 19, 2021 _ Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
[Ri...] Posted May 19, 2021 Share Posted May 19, 2021 Would this not work for you?Test - 5-19-21.zip Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
[Da...] Posted May 19, 2021 Share Posted May 19, 2021 Please sign in to view this quote. Jesus, maybe some day it will. Thank you Andreas. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
[Do...] Posted May 19, 2021 Author Share Posted May 19, 2021 Please sign in to view this quote. The middle feature is a hole and is controlled with a positional callout back to -A-. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
[Do...] Posted May 19, 2021 Author Share Posted May 19, 2021 Please sign in to view this quote. What version is this? I am running CALYPSO 5.6, unfortunately I cannot load or run any programs that are newer versions. Maybe screenshots of what you're program is portraying would help me better understand and possibly mimic it in the version I am running. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
[Da...] Posted May 20, 2021 Share Posted May 20, 2021 Please sign in to view this quote. Try if you can open this: Test - 5-19-21.zipTest - 5-19-21.zip Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
[To...] Posted May 21, 2021 Share Posted May 21, 2021 Has there been any discussion regarding simultaneous requirement, considering MMB on Datum B? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
[Cl...] Posted May 21, 2021 Share Posted May 21, 2021 Are you talking about the fact that -B- can "shift" and has a separate TP to -A- applied to it? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
[To...] Posted May 21, 2021 Share Posted May 21, 2021 Please sign in to view this quote. I see 2 true positions with MMB on B. If I evaluate each of them separately, one could force a shift in one direction and the other position could force a shift in the opposite direction. We can't do that. One method would be to do a best fit bore pattern on everything and use the lesser tolerance. Or, do the best fit bore pattern on the tighter tolerance position and use the best fit bore pattern alignment for the 2nd looser position. Or, mark the positions with SEPARATE REQUIRMENT note. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
[An...] Posted May 22, 2021 Share Posted May 22, 2021 _ Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
[To...] Posted May 22, 2021 Share Posted May 22, 2021 Please sign in to view this quote. Good morning Andreas, I'm not exactly sure what you're trying to say with your picture. Are you questioning the role of datum target C1 and what translations or rotations could be applied to datum B? Good question. Does datum target C1 rotate or translate relative to the shifted B? If I were to create a physical fixture, what would it look like? Correct me if I am wrong but the Datum B simulator would be a pin/plug made at MMB and a pointed stop mounted at the BASIC position for C1. If I put the part on the fixture, I can slide it all around the pin/plug, keeping it in contact with the C1 stop, which means C1 translates and rotates relative to its' original basic position. But I am not allowed to shift the part in different directions for each the position call-outs independently, right? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
[An...] Posted May 22, 2021 Share Posted May 22, 2021 _ Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
[To...] Posted May 23, 2021 Share Posted May 23, 2021 Please sign in to view this quote. Good question. I would assume if any datum shift is allowed within the DRF, simultaneous requirement is in play. Let's assume Datum B was RFS but Datum C was a feature of size, allowing rotation about B, then SR would apply. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
[Br...] Posted May 24, 2021 Share Posted May 24, 2021 Please sign in to view this quote. You should only tick the box for translation but make sure the MMB modifier is activated for Datum feature B. This will allow the part to shift within the DRF only the amount allowed based on the size of datum feature B. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
[An...] Posted May 25, 2021 Share Posted May 25, 2021 _ Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
[Ma...] Posted May 25, 2021 Share Posted May 25, 2021 Please sign in to view this quote. So much effort and i don't know what you want to say with this 😱 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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