[Ri...] Posted February 9, 2021 Share Posted February 9, 2021 Does anyone have any tips/tricks they'd like to share regarding measuring Curves with the tactile probe, and scanning over sharp corners? Typically I would just break the segments up, but I do lose some coverage because of this. If this was being done optically, it wouldn't be an issue. Any and all help is greatly appreciated. Thanks. Link to comment https://qualityforum.zeiss.com/topic/13540-curve-and-sharp-corners/ Share on other sites More sharing options...
[Jo...] Posted February 9, 2021 Share Posted February 9, 2021 Please sign in to view this quote. I never made it to the Curve course, but somewhere in evaluation you can manually select or mask points Link to comment https://qualityforum.zeiss.com/topic/13540-curve-and-sharp-corners/#findComment-69332 Share on other sites More sharing options...
[Ri...] Posted February 9, 2021 Author Share Posted February 9, 2021 It's not so much the masking of points, it's the fact that an edge is not clearly defined, so a lot of times (especially with small probes) it will cause a crash when trying to transition from one edge to another. Link to comment https://qualityforum.zeiss.com/topic/13540-curve-and-sharp-corners/#findComment-69334 Share on other sites More sharing options...
[Is...] Posted February 10, 2021 Share Posted February 10, 2021 I do many of those measurement methods, at the moment this is my favorite solution: Since tactile forces go in vector direction is common to have jumps during scanning, also when the adjacent vector change dramatically you will see that change in probe diameter corrections.. for that reason, I generate separate curves for scanning and evaluation: Nominal curve : vectors change 90° generating jumps during scanning and probe correction. Scanning curve: allows smooth transition during scanning. Evaluation Curve: change vectors gradually to avoid peaks in probe corrections. Other consideration is to use small probes to reduce the mechanical filter of the edge (in our case we use Ø 0.5 mm ): Also, for sensitive parts we give some flexibility to the metrologist: MES_SCN_OPT = 0 // Scanning orientation +Z = 1 -Z = 0 MES_SPEED = 1.5 // Profile Scanning Speed (mm/sec.) MES_PRF = 150 // Curve probing Force in mN, GRV_SCN_RAD1 = 0.4 // Transition radius for scanning Link to comment https://qualityforum.zeiss.com/topic/13540-curve-and-sharp-corners/#findComment-69336 Share on other sites More sharing options...
[Ma...] Posted February 10, 2021 Share Posted February 10, 2021 You can divide segment to three where middle one will have slower scanning speed to avoid jumps. Don't forget to select all segments to group them. Then it will scan without interruption. Adding one point to extact corner with tilted vector is good too. Link to comment https://qualityforum.zeiss.com/topic/13540-curve-and-sharp-corners/#findComment-69338 Share on other sites More sharing options...
[Ch...] Posted February 10, 2021 Share Posted February 10, 2021 I have found that small probes work better on curves with sharp corners. Link to comment https://qualityforum.zeiss.com/topic/13540-curve-and-sharp-corners/#findComment-69340 Share on other sites More sharing options...
[Ri...] Posted February 10, 2021 Author Share Posted February 10, 2021 Israel, This is good stuff. I will see if I am able to achieve the same level of success. Thank you. Chad, I didn't realize that. I am using a smaller stylus for this inspection - 0.8mm, but I will go smaller if needed. Thanks. Link to comment https://qualityforum.zeiss.com/topic/13540-curve-and-sharp-corners/#findComment-69342 Share on other sites More sharing options...
[Me...] Posted February 10, 2021 Share Posted February 10, 2021 Please sign in to view this quote. How is this done exactly? This is awesome. Link to comment https://qualityforum.zeiss.com/topic/13540-curve-and-sharp-corners/#findComment-69344 Share on other sites More sharing options...
[Is...] Posted February 10, 2021 Share Posted February 10, 2021 Please sign in to view this quote. Yes, Curve with PCM is a wonderful tool, once you learn is difficult to come back: viewtopic.php?p=22560#p22560 viewtopic.php?p=13419#p13419 viewtopic.php?p=21408#p21408 viewtopic.php?p=12892#p12892 Link to comment https://qualityforum.zeiss.com/topic/13540-curve-and-sharp-corners/#findComment-69346 Share on other sites More sharing options...
[Me...] Posted February 10, 2021 Share Posted February 10, 2021 Oh man, not sure if I have PCM. Doesn't it tell you if you have the license in the same place that shows curve & step? Link to comment https://qualityforum.zeiss.com/topic/13540-curve-and-sharp-corners/#findComment-69348 Share on other sites More sharing options...
[Ch...] Posted February 10, 2021 Share Posted February 10, 2021 Please sign in to view this quote. My intuition says that .8 should be good. My rule of thumb for complex curves is 1.0mm or less. I think it has something to do with less probe radius correction error. Link to comment https://qualityforum.zeiss.com/topic/13540-curve-and-sharp-corners/#findComment-69350 Share on other sites More sharing options...
[Ow...] Posted February 10, 2021 Share Posted February 10, 2021 When dealing with small radius's, corners and small probes, SPEED KILLS. I'll slow them sections down to 0.100 to 0.300 mmsec and avoid some of probe-bounce/compensation/noise issues. Link to comment https://qualityforum.zeiss.com/topic/13540-curve-and-sharp-corners/#findComment-69352 Share on other sites More sharing options...
[Ri...] Posted February 10, 2021 Author Share Posted February 10, 2021 Please sign in to view this quote. Would be an awesome feature to have dynamic scanning to where when it approached a sharp corner or small radius it slowed down. Link to comment https://qualityforum.zeiss.com/topic/13540-curve-and-sharp-corners/#findComment-69354 Share on other sites More sharing options...
[Ch...] Posted February 10, 2021 Share Posted February 10, 2021 Please sign in to view this quote. I wish. How can I give this comment 10 'thumbs up"? Link to comment https://qualityforum.zeiss.com/topic/13540-curve-and-sharp-corners/#findComment-69356 Share on other sites More sharing options...
[Er...] Posted February 10, 2021 Share Posted February 10, 2021 Please sign in to view this quote. That already exists, since like 5.8 ❓ In the way that you can scan different part of a curve with different speeds. Without removing the probe from the part. Link to comment https://qualityforum.zeiss.com/topic/13540-curve-and-sharp-corners/#findComment-69358 Share on other sites More sharing options...
[Ri...] Posted February 10, 2021 Author Share Posted February 10, 2021 Please sign in to view this quote. Without PCM? Link to comment https://qualityforum.zeiss.com/topic/13540-curve-and-sharp-corners/#findComment-69360 Share on other sites More sharing options...
[Er...] Posted February 10, 2021 Share Posted February 10, 2021 Yes. Link to comment https://qualityforum.zeiss.com/topic/13540-curve-and-sharp-corners/#findComment-69362 Share on other sites More sharing options...
[Ri...] Posted February 10, 2021 Author Share Posted February 10, 2021 Teach me, Master. Or at least give me a few bread crumbs. Link to comment https://qualityforum.zeiss.com/topic/13540-curve-and-sharp-corners/#findComment-69364 Share on other sites More sharing options...
[Er...] Posted February 10, 2021 Share Posted February 10, 2021 Well, its really simple. Create segments of your curve, edit the speed. Mark all (the ones you wish) segments and right click and choose "Group for the measurement". .....Now that will be 4 beers + tax. Link to comment https://qualityforum.zeiss.com/topic/13540-curve-and-sharp-corners/#findComment-69366 Share on other sites More sharing options...
[Ri...] Posted February 10, 2021 Author Share Posted February 10, 2021 Please sign in to view this quote. I was looking for the easy button. You know how us Americans are. Tell me what beer you want, and I'll send them your way. Link to comment https://qualityforum.zeiss.com/topic/13540-curve-and-sharp-corners/#findComment-69368 Share on other sites More sharing options...
[Ch...] Posted February 10, 2021 Share Posted February 10, 2021 Please sign in to view this quote. That is a really good idea. Its even in the documentation. Can't believe I didn't know about this. Link to comment https://qualityforum.zeiss.com/topic/13540-curve-and-sharp-corners/#findComment-69370 Share on other sites More sharing options...
[Is...] Posted February 10, 2021 Share Posted February 10, 2021 The speed can be adjusted by group of points (in the curve strategy), unfortunately this is not enough to avoid jumps, mainly if the edge is potentially deviated from the nominals and vectors change dramatically... The probing force goes in the direction of the vector, if there's no material the probe jumps, same happens if the vector changes and the surface still not achieve the edge, in some cases you could have broken tips.. Link to comment https://qualityforum.zeiss.com/topic/13540-curve-and-sharp-corners/#findComment-69372 Share on other sites More sharing options...
[Er...] Posted February 10, 2021 Share Posted February 10, 2021 Please sign in to view this quote. That can also be dealt with, to some extent. With point definition. I admit, it's a bit "fiddely". But it do work. But yeah, tactile measurements have some limitations. You can't toutch something that isn't there. One thing that also can help, depending on how the geometry looks, is measuring the curve inverted. Link to comment https://qualityforum.zeiss.com/topic/13540-curve-and-sharp-corners/#findComment-69374 Share on other sites More sharing options...
[Is...] Posted February 11, 2021 Share Posted February 11, 2021 Please sign in to view this quote. Extras / Settings / Miscellaneus /Licenses Link to comment https://qualityforum.zeiss.com/topic/13540-curve-and-sharp-corners/#findComment-69376 Share on other sites More sharing options...
[Me...] Posted February 11, 2021 Share Posted February 11, 2021 Please sign in to view this quote. If say there are clamps in the way of certain areas you would normally put a clearance, does this cause an issue for group for measurement? Link to comment https://qualityforum.zeiss.com/topic/13540-curve-and-sharp-corners/#findComment-69378 Share on other sites More sharing options...
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