Bonus extra to true position Calypso 5.4

[[Go...]]

Hello everyone, we are using Calypso 5.4 and I have a problem with calculating the extra bonus for true positions in holes, Calypso is adding an extra bonus even though the item size is out of its specification Can anyone please explain how to correct this in Calypso? I add an example

bonus.jpg

[[Me...]]

It looks correct to me. Assuming these are OD's, So for MMC at maximum size (5.32) you should only have a position tolerance of 0.15, however, its treating this as an inside diameter OR LMC
Inside diameter maximum condition would be 5.2, therefore bonus material would equal Actual - Minimum size (absolute value)
LMC for a OD would start at the smallest size. (5.2) and add bonus as it gets larger.

I would check to make sure LMC isn't the one being checked, then diameters. If this is still giving you issues, you may be able to use PCM formula to calculate this out. I can help with that too if you need it.

Let me know if I'm wrong or if this confuses you.

[[SH...]]

If you don't want to use tolerance beyond the design limit,. You can change the setting.
Go to extras then settings then measurement then MMC or LMC.

[[Da...]]

MMC is using the size to know how much bonus to apply to the position of your holes. It does not care how big the hole is, bonus is still applied. This is why both the size (diameter) and the position of the hole should be reported. You can have an oversized hole in the right place or a nominal hole in the wrong place, both are reasons to reject the part. MMC is not limited by the size of the hole as far as when to apply it. It is either applied or it is not.

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Thank you Andre,
In this case it is for an inner diameter ID, then, from 5.2 and as it increases, does it also increase its correct bonus? what is not yet clear to me is why when that ID passes its size specification Calypso adds it as a position tolerance even if it is out of size. Unfortunately I don't have PCM.

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Thank you David,
But is this right from a standards point of view? that is, I understand that the criteria for accepting or rejecting may be in some cases that the size is rejected and its position accepted and vice versa but my question is that Calypso does not discriminate against extra bonds or puts limits on applying these bonuses to only what allows their size tolerance, for example 5.2 +0.12 ID their maximum material condition is 5.2 and their position tolerance is 0.15 , the maximum allowed ID is 5.32 and its position tolerance would be 0.27, why does Calypso continue to add extra bonuses to the position tolerance when the allowed of its size is already exceeded?

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Thank you, I'll check what I can do.

[[Me...]]

What the designer is saying is this hole may not have as much importance as other locating features or the part may not need to be so precise.

so, the hole is allowed in size, 5.20 ~ 5.32. and its position is set at 0.15 (MMC) max.
This hole is allowed 0.15mm variance around its center coordinates. Whatever is going into the hole can fit correctly in if the hole is 5.20mm is size. However, If the hole was bigger, your mating part is allowed to move more.

a size 5.15mm pin will fit in the 5.20mm hole but have little wiggle room, therefore, your position of the hole needs to be more centered.

A size 5.15mm pin will fit in a 5.40mm hole with lots of wiggle room, therefore, the position of the hole is relaxed.

Q: Why is bonus tolerance applied if the hole is out of spec?
A: True position is a location type characteristic. It cares not if a size of the hole is within its tolerance.

Your 3 characteristics are size, location, and form.
There are a few characteristics that combine these such as runout.


You can cap the tolerance bonus but you may want to use that bonus to yours and the customers benefit, even if the hole is too large. What your position is saying is that because the hole is large, the mating part will have an easier time fitting in. For this reason, its better for the hole to be large than small.

I hope this helps!

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Thank you Andre,
It is very clear your explanation, only that I am very concerned about this issue because also in my work we have PCdmis and with this does not happen what I am exposing... PCdmis does not add bonus to true position tolerances when the diameter is out of specification either larger or smaller. Is there a point in ASME Y14.5 2009 or ISO 1101 that sustains the way Calypso applies?

[[Da...]]

Carlos, check what Shabu pv told you about changing Calypso default.

Another similar thread -> viewtopic.php?f=13&t=3941

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Thank you Dane,
The next day Shabu shared that information to me was the first activity I did on the machine because for my Calypso I should not add extra bonuses when the diameter is out of specification, but... I followed the steps that Shabu suggested regenerates the report and still continues to add the bonus 🙁 I don't know if you have to restart the machine after making the change

[[Da...]]

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It could be that you only need to Re-link (software re-connect with the button above the traffic light), I'm not sure.

[[Me...]]

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I did some searching but could not find information to back this up, this is news to me. I checked AMSE Y14.5 2009 and 2018 As well as ISO 1101 (led me to ISO 2692). Both ISO and ASME seem to put the limits of size first before the position. This may be why Calypso always puts a diameter with the position characteristic. In this case, I guess we are limiting the bonus material to the dimensional size but should always report the two together when looking for position.
So I'm wrong, This just did not occur to me as a standard so when reporting it to a customer, I would remove that extra tolerance.