More ideas for preventing damage?

[[Mi...]]

My facility has way too many CMMs, nearly 40. And until recently they were all managed by one guy. Naturally he had zero time to keep updated on new additions to the software and he was trained on version 4.xx where things like Park Position didn't exist.

AutoRun wasn't being used either.

So my main ongoing side-project for the last few months has been to setup AutoRun and Park Positions on hundreds of programs, as well as editing minor things within programs to prevent stoppages.

CMMs in this facility are used by people with very low skill and almost zero training. We are trying to change that, but managers don't want to let us have the time to teach, they just want us to prevent every conceivable issue with software (HA!)

Right now within AutoRun I've turned off access to everything except header data, run parameters ( so individual features can be checked instead of the whole program or a miniplan - Required for machine setups) and the stoplight.

So my question:

The single most common issue we have is with XXT heads, the Chip ID is useless. But also the head "unloads" in software and goes to stylus not defined as soon as it calls for a probe change. So if the operator selects the wrong program (each program is a 400x400 box to click and this still happens many times a day), and the first step in the run is a probe change, they then realize their mistake and stop the program, the machine won't restart without defining the stylus, because even though it's still holding whatever system it had, it's unloaded it in software. We've tried training people to let the probe change happen, and that the machine wont crash because the first probing points are just check points to make sure the right part is loaded, with little success.

One solution I see, is to make the first stylus system used the same on all programs, and then have an automatic change in the Park Position at the end of every program to that stylus. That's what I've been doing going forward, but I'm curious if there is something else to prevent that.

Any other ideas for this or preventing damage from other sources? I doubt many places use CMMs the way my factory does so I'm expecting some shock...

[[Ma...]]

Do you have PCM?

[[Cl...]]

If you have PCM, this may be what you are looking for?

viewtopic.php?f=21&t=3704

[[Jo...]]

If you allow permission, can't you just instruct them to do an automatic stylus change from the drop down in Autorun ?

[[Mi...]]

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Interesting, but that doesn't solve the problem that just changes when the probe change happens to the beginning of the program which is what freaks out the operators.

The problem is XXT heads unload the stylus in software before they actually unload it, so since we have the operators locked out - for good reason- from doing manual or automatic stylus changes they don't have a way of fixing the issue of them stopping the program while it's in the middle of a stylus change. The operators are not capable of handing stylus changes on CMMs with only 2 systems to pick from even, we've tried.

Us going forward making the first points in every program done with the same system and having the park position do the probe change to that stylus system is working, I was just hoping for a global setting to stop it from going to "stylus not defined" if the program is stopped during a probe change if it hasn't unloaded the system. Other than the horribly flawed Chip ID system.

[[Cl...]]

We have an XXT, use autorun and have few problems. This sounds like a sofware/hardware issue. Have you asked Zeiss for help?

[[Mi...]]

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I sounds more like an operator issue - selecting the wrong program and cancelling 2 seconds in. I've experienced it myself, but it's not been a recurring problem.

[[Mi...]]

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Oh its absolutely and operator issue. People walk in the door here and are told to use the CMM immediately after being "trained" for half a shift, and there is no fear of screwing things up because nobody gets in trouble for destroying a $10 000 head.

I'm just looking for other ways people have prevented it... hoping somebody will come out with a way that doesn't involve hundreds of programs needing edits.

[[Am...]]

This is super annoying and i've instructed people if they are going to stop a program for whatever reason to at least let it change the probe and start moving. You can see when the probe change happens in the software since its delayed form whats actually happening, if you look at that CMM tab it will be red during the time the probe is undefined once it turns green its ok to stop it.

People still get confused by this and ill get called over and they will say it says stylus undefined and act like they haven't seen this 100 times. What i've done is printed out a page long thing with a step by step with pics of the toolbar and icons to "pick up" stylus or release it. That seems to have reduced the frequency that they have to ask but yes some operators just don't get it and for those its probably best they don' touch it honestly.

[[Ro...]]

Put this in the presettings
message("Do not stop the machine during probe change, ever, for any reason!!!")
message("This means you too, Steve!!!!")

[[Cl...]]

We have not ever had an issue with the problem Michael is having. After reading Amels response, I now understand what Michael was talking about. At first I thought the software was causing some sort of sylus error. Its all about training.

[[Me...]]

Until your Management gets tired of replacing probes and heads due to negligence, incompetence or training, you could just do programmable stops with instructions out the yin-yang.

[[Cl...]]

Whats a yin-yang?

[[La...]]

We deal with a lot of customers using the Duramax machines the same way as your facility, and it boils down to training and putting in the effort to make the CMM as foolproof as possible. It seems like you're on that initiative, which is great.

One of our customers (automotive and high production, just like you) was experiencing a lot of collisions because quite frankly, they lacked the effort in coming up with a comprehensive AutoRun and providing the operators with the tools they need to do the job correctly. They were running programs based off part numbers with no visual cues to help them, especially with parts that look similar, had similar part numbers, or OP10/OP20 situations where there could be missing features. If you need help with implementing AutoRun or want some suggestions on what's worked for others, you know how to reach me.

I spent two weeks there helping them implement an AutoRun interface similar to a webpage, chock full of aids, images, etc. and they reduced their tooling and probe head cost by over 80% the following 12 months. We also spent time reducing their cycle times and eliminating a lot of the redundant alignments and iterative secondary alignments, etc. etc, and they have a similar parts catalog as far as # of programs/part #s as you guys have.

Unfortunately, with the probe change, there's nothing that will really change that behaviour (losing the ID during the probe change process, and not "picking it back up" if the process is aborted) and it does the same on XT heads as well. The suggestion of implementing programmable stops might work, or beginning/ending the programs with the same stylus system...

Laura

[[Ke...]]

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It's like a "Wazoo" 🤣

[[Ke...]]

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Yeah... I worked at one of the "Big 3"... I get it.

[[Cl...]]

Two Vast XT's smoked in the past 8 years. It is not impressed enough on the poorly trained operators how expensive these machines are.

[[Da...]]

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[[Da...]]

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[[Da...]]

If they are Zeiss probes (unless Zeiss was doing the same thing?)
At one point Qmart was not soldering the contact point to the micro Chip board. I don't know if that was also being done by Zeiss. If not then you just need to be cleaned so the contacts (3 Bearings) make good electrical connection.
Attached is a PDF if what I use to clean the probe plates.

Clean Probe Plates.pdf

[[Is...]]

Maybe you can solve the issue of the wrong program selection, implementing a barcode scanner.

[[Th...]]

Ive had the same problem here at my plant. What i did was Forcing measurement run information at CNC start. Under define run parameter. With text and pictures and there they will have the choice to either run or cancel the run before any stylus change is done. It saved me alot of time.

[[Ri...]]

Something I implemented about 8 years ago.
When entering hole locations I set the Clearance value to a minimum of .1969 (Inch mode) (Value is dependent on depth of the feature).
Then set the internal Speed to no more than "30".
Even if the hole is (ex) 5 inches deep I set the Clearance value to 5.1969 (Inch mode). Once the stylus reaches the clearance value the speed will slow down to my preset value (30). If a tool is broken inside, a chip, some debris, the collision will be quite minor simply stopping the CMM.
It has saved a lot of stylus tips over the years.