[Ad...] Posted July 21, 2020 Share Posted July 21, 2020 Have a question does anybody here program and run from the Feature list? I myself run from the Characteristic list so I can see if part is running good or bad. The Feature list, nothing highlights through the Program run until it picks up all the Features and then puts out the printout. I was taught to program and to run to the Characteristic list 14 years ago, just making sure I am not missing something or behind the times here! Thank you Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
[Ja...] Posted July 21, 2020 Share Posted July 21, 2020 Please sign in to view this quote. I run from the Feature list. The reason being I set up my program that way, feature by feature. I plan my moves from one feature to the next. Running from the characteristic list can often send the probe on a very inefficient path. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
[La...] Posted July 21, 2020 Share Posted July 21, 2020 To me, running from Characteristic list is likely pretty inefficient. Running from feature list allows you to group by stylus system / stylus tip and you can also use the Calypso 2019 program optimizer and run in order of optimized features. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
[Ow...] Posted July 21, 2020 Share Posted July 21, 2020 15 years ago when I took Calypso basic training, they trained and recommended programming from characteristics. There's been a lot of changes since then that may make it more feasible but, to this day, I program from features and I'd say 90% of all other programmers I've met in that time do too. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
[SH...] Posted July 22, 2020 Share Posted July 22, 2020 Please sign in to view this quote. Advantage . If you don't have pcm, you can control the program using condition and loop. . You can see each characteristic is ok or not after its measurement. . I run characteristic when I use small program with only one probe orientation. Disadvantage . It can Increase your cycle time. . Run the program using selecting the feature became more complicated. . multiple probe orientation program because more time to set up . I think running through feature is more user friendly and popular. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
[Is...] Posted July 22, 2020 Share Posted July 22, 2020 Please sign in to view this quote. Please sign in to view this quote. I think this is only related to the way that you build your strategies (machine movements). Checking from the computing time I have the impression that execute from characteristics is faster than feature list: I normally save from 30 to 80 seconds in programs that take round 12 minutes. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
[No...] Posted July 22, 2020 Share Posted July 22, 2020 Please sign in to view this quote. I must be missing something here 😕 For me it's the other way round: I almost always run by features, and by looking at the feature list during a run, I can see where the program is at the moment, while in the characteristic list nothing gets highlighted until the program is finished and generates the report. Can this be due to the fact that I have defined custom save paths for my measuring points and reports? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
[Ca...] Posted July 22, 2020 Share Posted July 22, 2020 This is kind of interesting. I've always programmed and run from the Features tab. I feel like running from the Characteristics tab could/would cause unnecessary travel, and probe changes. We do the typical print ballooning here, and our inspection reports are organized by chronological balloon order. I feel like making a program, to be run from the Characteristics tab, wouldn't (or sometimes couldn't) keep this chronological order system. As for seeing if a Characteristic is "Good" or not, I don't think it would honestly have any value. Until the program finishes, you can't actually review the data. I certainly wouldn't speak with anyone, telling them their part is out of tolerance, but being absolutely unable to provide more details, until the program finishes running. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
[Ad...] Posted July 24, 2020 Author Share Posted July 24, 2020 I program using mainly 2-3 probes, 3mm, 1mm and star probe. We typically if we can only use one probe on a program and sometimes the program can last 5 minutes up to 8 hours. This is why I ask about if it makes a difference feature or characteristic list. Is there any chance of crashing running from the features one time and next run 4 months down the road running from characteristics? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
[La...] Posted July 24, 2020 Share Posted July 24, 2020 Please sign in to view this quote. Adam, If you're using Clearance Planes there shouldn't be an issue. What you would need to watch out for are CMM Position Points that may expect to be running from features or vice versa. Things like Programmable stops and move points may end up in weird places when you flip flop between run orders. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
[Ch...] Posted July 24, 2020 Share Posted July 24, 2020 Casey, I love how 19% of your likes have came from this one post. You summoned your inner Friedrich Nietzsche. Adam, As with most people here, I agree that you can optimize the program navigation much better running from the features list. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
[Me...] Posted July 24, 2020 Share Posted July 24, 2020 Features. Gets through the part as fast as you can. Since I bubble all prints I arrange characteristics to coincide with the bubbles. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
[Ro...] Posted July 24, 2020 Share Posted July 24, 2020 Features, 100%. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
[SH...] Posted July 24, 2020 Share Posted July 24, 2020 Please sign in to view this quote. everyone supporting feature,I don't know why zeiss engineers support characteristic programming?? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
[Ri...] Posted July 24, 2020 Share Posted July 24, 2020 I'm not going to name any names, but I've been berated before by running from the Features side. It was a strange discussion. At the end of the day, I like running from the Characteristics side if I don't care about cycle time, and there aren't a lot of unnecessary stylus system changes. If it is going to kill my cycle time, then I'd prefer to run from the Features side - it is the most efficient. I agree with the OP on being able to see the Characteristics as they are measured to see OOS characteristics immediately instead of at the end of the measurement plan. At the end of the day, do what works for you and your company. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
[Ri...] Posted July 24, 2020 Share Posted July 24, 2020 Please sign in to view this quote. Because it is "technically" the way you should at least program. You open the characteristic that you want and you define/select the features, and it populates for you the way that it should. And there is nothing wrong with that. The main point though is that running from the characteristics is just some times very inefficient. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
[Mi...] Posted August 3, 2020 Share Posted August 3, 2020 Another vote for Characteristic. We like to see pass/fail in real time vs waiting until the end of a program. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
[Am...] Posted August 3, 2020 Share Posted August 3, 2020 Im surprised by the majority running from features, I use both depending on the program but mainly from characteristics. I still try to make the program as efficient as I can in through the characteristics especially if the difference isn't going to be worth it. I will run from feature list if I really need the efficiency if we are going to be measuring a lot of that part but for most things I think knowing that a dimension is failing is more useful. If there is an MRB and you are just trying to find all the good parts there is no point in running the whole program if the part is scrap. I would like the feature list if it populated the characteristics in real-time but I don't think that is an option. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
[Gr...] Posted August 4, 2020 Share Posted August 4, 2020 We always run from the features list. As mentioned earlier in this post, by someone else,we group the features to a particular stylus and it's articulation. This seems to save measuring time by not have the CMM constantly swapping stylus. We have an aerospace job here we ran using characteristic list took 40 minutes. Ran it again from feature list took 27 minutes. When you have 30 parts on an order, and have to supply a report for each one, there is quite a bit of time savings. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
[Za...] Posted August 4, 2020 Share Posted August 4, 2020 I don't see much value in knowing in real time if the Characteristic has failed. Do you stop the program right there and correct that one out of tolerance? I would assume you would let the program finish either way. I could see if you are testing parts of a program or just need a few Characteristics off the program. But for me, if I'm going to run the whole thing anyway, might as well be efficient. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
[Jo...] Posted August 4, 2020 Share Posted August 4, 2020 Please sign in to view this quote. Same here. I'm not using CMM to sort bad parts, I'm using it to get data. I need all the data to inform a decision. I need to know what is bad, why, where, and what to do about it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
[Wo...] Posted August 6, 2020 Share Posted August 6, 2020 Characteristics. Why? Just because it was the way I was taught to do. For me, the cycle times are identical as I make sure the characteristics order match the features order. I have some manifolds to check that require dozens of different probes/angles and I always sort them with groups in both characteristics and features. How does masking work with Features? Can you mask a feature to skip it? Asking because I've never tried it. I've also never tried the automatic sorting of plan order that Zeiss introduced recently. Scared of collisions with custom clearance points etc. And for the report I just put the balloon number at the front of the characteristic name, and then just sort the report alphabetically. Running from features looks tempting, but I'm not sure I would get used to it. Thanks Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
[Ri...] Posted August 6, 2020 Share Posted August 6, 2020 You cannot mask a feature. Calypso will only run the feature if it is needed in an unmasked characteristic. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
[No...] Posted August 6, 2020 Share Posted August 6, 2020 Please sign in to view this quote. ...or in a formula of a measured feature, or in some PCM code. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
[Jo...] Posted August 6, 2020 Share Posted August 6, 2020 Please sign in to view this quote. + secondary alignment reference Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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