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CANT TOGGLE ON MMC FOR TRUE POSITION CHARACTERISTIC


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Does anybody know how to, or have a problem with not being able to toggle on the MMC modifier for a reference datum in a true position characteristic? I have to relate a width dimension that carries the requirement back to (Datum A) that was scanned as a cylinder and (Datum B) which is a planer flange face. The characteristic does not have a tertiary (Datum C) as of yet, as this is an in-process inspection at the first milling stage of the part. The width dimension is measured using a symmetry plane feature. Does Calypso need a tertiary datum to fully constrain the feature frame, thus allowing the modifier for Datum a to be toggled on? I am pretty much a novice in the software and need this on in order to comply with the customers b/p. Any help would be appreciated.
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A few points:

Yes, you're right to use a symmetry plane feature.

I've seen many cases where Calypso ghosts out (or hides altogether) the dropdown for boundary conditions on datum features of size. Unfortunately, I've never seen or heard an explanation why, nor have I been able to pick up on any rhyme or reason on when it happens.

I doubt that adding a tertiary datum feature will change this behavior in your case. However, it is still a topic you should consider. In spite of widely held concepts of how Calypso "should" work, reality trumps. Behind-the-scenes, Calypso treats all DRF's as alignments. And it solves using "sequential evaluation", meaning it determines the position/orientation of each alignment before it begins calculating the results of the positions, profiles, etc. that are tied to that alignment. As a result, it does not optimize the unconstrained degrees of freedom. (The exception to this is best fit bore pattern, which only works in 2D scenarios.) If you don't select something to constrain that last degree of freedom, the alignment will simply inherit it from the parent alignment, which is usually the Base Alignment.
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Based on the number of views Aaron it looks like quite a few operators have had this situation...Lol.
I have had this situation more times than i would like to over my limited time in Calypso. I have version 6.4 , but
haven't installed it yet. Maybe that will address this issue a bit better. Thanks for confirming that there is a glitch involving this.

Dan
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  • 4 weeks later...
Does anybody else have a clue on this? With almost 27,000 views on this in under a month, it has to be happening quite frequently. 🙂

Thanks,
Dan
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Uh.. pretty sure all those views are a bug with the forum. I bet there haven't been much more than 27000 views on this entire forum since its been up.

That said.. unfortunately this is well known Collapso™ behaviour..
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Calypso does not support datum shift when a symmetry plane is the considered feature or used as a datum feature. The only time you will have the option to apply coordinate system mobility (MMB) is when the features (considered / datum) are cylindrical and reside in the same plane.
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  • 4 weeks later...
  • 1 year later...
You cant use MMC for Slots, So I just use formulas.
It more then likely has to do with MMC of a slot is assessed with Width and Length separately.
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My only problem with using formulas in the tolerance is that capability analysis inside of PiWeb doesn't work correctly when you do that. I like to use Theoretical Circles that pull in the actuals, and then do the evaluation on the circles. That allows me to use the native material condition functionality.
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I don't have a solution for that one. I don't use Pie web instead I setup a data transfer to SQL server then use Excel or Minitab.
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Andreas, in #1, it is my understanding that profile should be used on the 20 plane on right, since it is not a feature of size.
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Let’s not forget that original question pertained to a modified datum reference. Calypso will only allow modifiers to be applied to datum references when both the datum feature(s) and considered feature(s) are cylindrical. Additionally all must reside in the same measuring plane since the software only allows for “datum shift” in 2d.

Also, using the Slot feature within Calypso to verify the position of an elongated hole would be incorrect, if one is trying to maintain the spirit of the Y14.5 standard. This is because Calypso is only looking at the computed center point of the Slot feature and not the boundary.

The Slot feature can be used to verify the size components of an elongated hole, but if you're a Y14.5 purist, remember that this is only an approximated LSQ fit.
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Calypso is not to Y14.5 it was made to ISO 1101

Remember that you also have Preassignment for evaluation method
If it really is important measurement I used Gage Quality Tools
Like True Position Thread Locators and I also use Parallel plates for Datum simulators
I also have the CMM granite calibrated so that can also be used.
If you have that done and they need to do lapping. Don't lap any part the ballerina leg bearing guide
I really like the Prismo that have that area stepped down.

Capture.JPG

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Interesting…. Can you point me to the proper section for evaluating the location of an elongated hole so that I may learn something new.

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Only option is LSQ for the Slot feature.
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An elongated hole (Slot) is not one feature.
It is assessed as multiply features.
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The Long side of the slot is completely different then the short side of the slot.
I would say your engineers need to take another look at the print if they have a Position of a slot.
The only part of a slot that should make contact with the Fastener or Pin is the short sides.
Slot length should be great enough that if the parts are in tolerance that it doesn't make contact.

Dan
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Does this mean that in order to evaluate the position of an elongated hole (Slot) and be compliant to the ISO 1101 standard, one would have to evaluate each face the makes up the elongated hole separately?

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Just so that we are clear, which standard?
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