Custom Printout , A thing of the past...

[[Da...]]

PiWeb is about to take over Calypso. Custom print out will be retired .

While I know Piweb can do much more than Custom P.O. I don't feel that Custom PO should be retired. It's easy, doesn't require a class to be able to use it, and it's much faster than Piweb. What do you think?

[[Ca...]]

I hadn't heard about this. It's extremely disappointing. PiWeb is pretty awesome, and I do use it for some customers, but most of them have come to love the Custom Printout.

I gave a source inspector a PiWeb printout on accident once, I swear he froze up while trying to read it. I took it away from him when one of his eyes started to drift to the center of his face....

[[Me...]]

Yeah I heard they were getting rid of it, for next years release I think. I second you guys, Piweb is neat and beep/boop beep/boop and all that, but just never really had necessity for it, up to this far I guess. If you need to embroider a zircon encrusted picture of yourself onto your report I guess it's pretty good though.

[[Ow...]]

I haven't heard about it but, I believe they'd have to add more capabilities to the "free" version that comes with Calypso now before anybody considered re-writing thousands of programs to use 3.14159-web

Forcing customers to use anything new and thought to be improved can have devastating results. Just ask Ford about Edsel or Microsoft about Zune or the millions still using Windows 7.

[[La...]]

Please sign in to view this quote.

What other capabilities are on your wishlist? The free version is incredibly powerful and does far more than the custom printout (which is also "free").

[[Da...]]

I like the possibilities of Piweb , but keep custom printout. The simplicity is great for my operators,they all understand how to use it.
I remember when Excel was a GREAT program, now most people have very limited ability to use it. It was changed and improved so much that it isn't anything like the original easy to use program ! Change for the sake of change?

[[Me...]]

Please sign in to view this quote.

Not trying to call you old..but welcome to my generation, and yes I'm agreeing with you, haha. Pretty soon these apps will have e-tassels and e-mobiles hanging down from the sides, flashing and spinning to keep kids attention...

[[Da...]]

Please sign in to view this quote.

I am proud to belong to the generation that FIXED things, When they were broken !!

My car is 16 years old. My house was built in the '30's . I don't buy a new car because it runs out of washer fluid.

BUT !!!! it has to be BROKEN in order to FIX it ! nothing broken on custom print out. Leave it alone. Add Piweb Don't replace custom with it !!! 🤣 🤣 🤣

[[Me...]]

Please sign in to view this quote.

I'm ok with all of this. 😎

[[De...]]

I was not a fan of the idea of piWeb originally either, however I have used it some now and its not as bad as I originally thought.

Now I think piWeb is pretty good, its got lots of flexibility if you take the time to modify the templates, but even if you don't the standard template is pretty complete as is.

That said the following is a list of a few things I have had issues with so far.

Degrees \ Minutes \ Seconds don't seem to show up - instead of 10 minutes on a tolerance I ended up with .0029 - maybe that's in radians or something? I had to switch to using decimal degrees. That's an issue when our customers want reports that match their 30 year old prints.

No ability to change the default plane for line profile plots - if you aren't satisfied with the default plane, get ready to change it manually every time you run a part. (Unless someone can correct me on that)

No ability to add multiple plots to a single page without making a new template - graphic elements allowed this in the old method and were pretty configurable without a lot of extra work.

Overall much more difficult to make displays of only the characteristics you want instead of it wanting to spit out every characteristic.

[[Ow...]]

Please sign in to view this quote.

Laura,
I'll have to admit I haven't messed with it much since it's initial release a few versions ago so, my statement may be hogwash now but, seriously who doesn't like Bacon 🤣

[[Ch...]]

On PIWEB, the headers are a lot more cumbersome. For some places, the header contains critical information.

[[Lo...]]

How much resources does PiWeb take up? I haven't used it at all for any of our production programs however I have printed some of the form plots on some proto jobs. The amount of time that it takes to generate the report is too long. I cant see this being normal.

[[To...]]

Lonnie, What I've seen is a longer processing time to produce the first report but it seems a little faster on subsequent reports.

[[Ja...]]

Wait till you guys try to edit the headers! Ha! What a nightmare - way too complicated and some of the links are all but impossible to find, and then when you do some of them don't work. Not the least bit impressed. Until Zeiss makes it more user friendly and functioning properly, I'm with you guys - keep the custom printout. The custom printout also utilizes paper more efficiently.

[[Ch...]]

^^^^^^^ Right on Jack

Also, PiWeb without a doubt takes longer. The first time yes, and it also takes longer on subsequent runs. You may not notice on shorter programs, but try it on a program with 250+ characteristics that is loaded with Curve, Freeform, and graphical outputs and there is a significant difference.

[[La...]]

I'm going to preface my comment that I am a huge PiWeb advocate. I wish these tools were available to me when I worked as a Product Engineer in my past role - would have made my life so much easier to be able to right click on a report to see if a certain characteristic was trending one way or another. Or would have saved me hours of data manipulation plugging capability studies into Minitab when I could have just done them in PiWeb.

Anywho,

That being said - I don't understand the comments saying that creating custom variables is difficult.

To make the variables on the Calypso side:

Resources > Design Custom Printout > Editor for User-Defined Printout Header Variables. Create your variables and map them to a K value.

Multiple Printout > Turn on the variables that you just created to be collected at run time or edit mode.

Enter your variable information in the Run screen or Resources > Printout Header Parameters.

To connect them in PiWeb

Open the design editor. If you want to replace some of the pre-existing variables just double click on the label and type your new variable name in. Ie. Double Click on the text box that says Operator and type in your new variable Hair Colour.

Right click on the variable placeholder text box and navigate to Variable > Data Provider > Measurement > Hair Colour.

Save the report.

[[Ch...]]

If starting from scratch, then I would be a bigger fan of P$-Web; However, I think to many places are "married" to the headers available on the custom printout. It would be impractical for a facility deeply rooted in using the the headers available on the custom printout to switch to using custom variable. Especially if they did not have someone on staff who was familiar with creating custom variables.

[[La...]]

I can appreciate your point regarding operator capability. With the way manufacturing is advancing, it's unfortunate that there are a lot of companies that don't want to do more with the information they are already collecting.

[[Ch...]]

100% agreed. Personally, I love custom variables and many of the features of PiWeb. Maybe the problem is that a lot of technicians, and even engineers, lack basic computer skills.

On a plus side, the new IATF standard is really pushing for this type of statistical analysis.

[[Ja...]]

The last time I tried editing something (which was with my old employer) the way Laura described would only work about ½ the time. And when I would try adding something from the Multiple Printout/Select Printout Header Parameters screen, I could get it to show up in the editor only after using a rather weird linking procedure and only about 1 in 3 tries would it show up on the printout. I haven’t tried it here mainly because I thought PiWeb worked the same no matter what computer it was on. But it sounds like Laura doesn’t have any problems. When software works on some machines and not others, that’s quirky. Don’t get me wrong, I think additional information availability is great too but I for one would appreciate it if Zeiss would quit using its’ end users as Beta testers and get it right before it’s released so it's not quirky. So for now I’m saying leave custom printout alone because PiWeb needs further refinement. As I said before - Custom printout works, runs faster, uses paper more efficiently, and is probably what the majority of users/companies want because of those things and they don’t have to deal with the more technical aspect of PiWeb. Also, it shouldn’t take Laura or any of us three or four steps of adding this here, adding a link there, or typing a cryptic command somewhere just to add a line of information to the printout. Please give us a choice until PiWeb is better developed. Don’t just cut us off at the ankles and make a lot of us suffer while the bugs get worked out.

[[Ri...]]

Pi Web is a great product for some customers. Getting rid of the Custom Report will be a problem for a lot of legacy Calypso users I would guess.

Laura, I do have three questions you can probably answer.

1.) If they are ditching Custom Printout, will a fully functional version of Pi Web be included with the price of Calypso 2018?

2.) Will Compact Printout remain or is that going away to?

3.) Can Pi Web correctly calculate Cp/CpK, Pp/PpK for a Position callout with MMC/LMC?

[[To...]]

Please sign in to view this quote.

1 My understanding is PiWeb Reporter Plus has been, and continues to be included with new machine purchase only.

2. According to 6.6 Release Info:
- 2018 - End of support of custom printout.
- 2019 - changes in the operation of custom printout.
- 2020 - end of changeover phase.

Discontinued report templates:
- Custom report, user-defined report (Latest version 5.8)
- Graphic Element - Replaced by PiWeb Reporting Plus
- Flex Reporter - Replaced by PiWeb Reporting Plus
All other reports and printouts will remain active

3. PiWeb currently adds an (M) characteristic to Positions with MMC/LMC , which is percentage of the tolerance, including bonus, used just for people who need to do SPC.

Thanks to Maria Haro Ritchey at Zeiss for the following explanation.
---------------------------------------
PiWeb Reporting is also designed to report out statistic calculations. Because of the MMC the tolerance of the true position changes all the time. For some statistic calculation you need a fix value for the tolerance range.
So we have to create a result that has a fix tolerance corresponding to the result of the flexible tolerance with MMC.

On the attached example:

0.1256 is the tolerance with MMC and 0.05 is the tolerance without MMC.
0.05 / 0.1256 = 0.3980892 is 39.81 %.
True position actual with MMC is 0.0020 and 39.81 % of it is 0.0008
.

[[Ri...]]

That is excellent news and Pi Web and MMC/LMC. It would appear Pi Web is calculating the percentage of tolerance after applying MMC bonus to the tolerance before MMC. Not sure why they took that approach. What I would do is get the percentage of the tolerance used actual to tolerance after MMC. In the case you posted, 0.002/0.01256 = 0.159 or 16%. Now we can use that 16 along with all the other percentage results to calculate Cp/CpK Pp/PpK

As far as the rest goes, ah well, such is life.

[[No...]]

I can only repeat myself: If something like PiWeb is included and intended to replace the old solution, it has to be 100% compatible. Everything else is a no-go, otherwise there will always be somebody who has to rewrite his/her hundreds of programs because of that little incompatibility, however insignificant it may seem to others.
Unfortunately PiWeb features not only one but a lot of incompatibilities and I discover more and more of them the deeper I delve into it. I'm sticking to my opinion: This was a pure marketing decision, not a generous gift to the Calypso community.