[Ow...] Posted September 29, 2023 Share Posted September 29, 2023 Running gear-pro version 6.6 and trying to report the tooth thickness of an internal spline. Put in the correct tooth thickness and it reports the gap width. Put in the gap width and it reports the tooth thickness?? I’ve chosen internal on the geometry page and everything reports correctly but, the tooth thickness. In the Global technology tab I’ve made sure teeth are selected (not gap) and when that didn’t work, I chose gap but, nothing reports the thickness correctly. In the setup evaluation, I’ve selected teeth in the numbering on presentation tab (even tried gaps to no avail) and even though this shouldn’t matter what it reports size wise, nothing works. I haven’t measured internal splines in a while (don't do as much with CMM's anymore for that matter), but this seems like déjà vu and I can’t remember how to change it to report correctly. 😡 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
[Ch...] Posted September 29, 2023 Share Posted September 29, 2023 Owen, Sounds like you're doing everything correctly. However I'll also say ,as you're probably aware, most gear softwares default to 'tooth' for external and 'gap' for internal. (Side rant : gap ? what is a gap but thin air -the deviations become very confusing on Gear Pro reports ... I prefer to stick with tooth 100% of the time, internal or external... I digress) I'm sure I've done this as you have mentioned and reported CTT/CSW on an internal correctly. If you can send me an .act file an nominal CTT/CSW - I can take a look as well. By chance .. have you re-drawn your CAD model in GP ? (do not reset anything - just redraw CAD) Edit : is there a tooth missing or is this an odd ball spline , 45° ?? Good luck. Chris Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
[Ow...] Posted October 3, 2023 Author Share Posted October 3, 2023 Please sign in to view this quote. Thanks for the suggestions and willingness to help Chris! I did try re-drawing the model but, it didn't help. Typical 30° pressure angle spline with no teeth missing and pitch is checked on all 47 teeth. I will try re-creating the whole program from scratch when I get the time but, until then, they're OK with just the over/between-pin measurement matching what they're getting with manual gauging. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
[Ch...] Posted October 3, 2023 Share Posted October 3, 2023 Owen, No problem, definitely sounds like a strange issue. Another thing I might recommend is take a similar internal spline program that did report CTT/CSW properly and do a Save As. Reinput nominal data and redraw CAD, if this doesn't report out properly, sounds like you might possibly have some "goofy" aka 'modified' Spline Data. I have an excel sheet to calculate MBW to CTT/CSW if you would like it, just PM me. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
[Ro...] Posted October 5, 2023 Share Posted October 5, 2023 Hallo Owen, did you make sure using the lastest version? Seems to be a patch (august 2023) there: https://portal.zeiss.com/download-cente ... 534/47114/ If the problem is not solved, please contact the support team with your *.act file. Thx Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
[Ow...] Posted January 22 Author Share Posted January 22 So, I'm back on these again using a newer version (2023 7.0.0) and to no avail, it still can't report the correct tooth thickness no matter whether gaps or teeth are chosen.. Plus, when checking evaluation methods regarding outlier elimination under global technology, I open it up one time and says outlier elimination is off and the next time I open it without changing one single thing, it shows the outlier on 🙄 . Looked on the download portal to see if there had been a service pack for the newer version I DL in October and it now shows SP 7.0.02 but, no information available on what was changed or if it had anything to do with the issue I'm experiencing . 🙄 . I don't measure ID splines a lot and don't have much time to focus on the program when I do but, it appears that it has a glitch in it. If I had more time, I'd call the help-line but, the last time I did that, it took way too long to get a reply (the next day) and I was on to the next job. Not a lot of inquires/questions on gear-pro here anymore so, I wonder if they (Zeiss) are just not prioritizing it like they aren't on annual calibration dispatches. 🫣 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
[Ch...] Posted January 22 Share Posted January 22 Owen, Happy New Year. A software glitch is very possible, couple other questions though : In geometry have you selected this to be an internal spline ? Even if it were a gear results should be close. I'm assuming your lead and involute charts are good, with no large errors or large runout ? Looks like your gap /thickness are flipped. In presentation settings, could you possibly have something flipped ? for example, the only one that might make logical sense is : material /no material Might want to fully uninstall when you get a chance and try re-installing. Good luck. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
[Ow...] Posted January 23 Author Share Posted January 23 Chris Rotolo, I posted this directly before calling it a day yesterday and didn't see you responded promptly, Thank You! Happy New Year to you as well. To answer your questions. (1Q) In geometry have you selected this to be an internal spline ? (1A) Yes it is selected as an internal involute spline ANSI B92.1 with AISI AGMA 2000-A88:1988-03 representation. (2Q) I'm assuming your lead and involute charts are good, with no large errors or large runout ? (2A) Unfortunately, no and that might be the problem to begin with. The involute profile on one side is not good, not horrible but, not good. These are splines that have been post-laser hardened after initial production to a HRC of 58-63 with a 1.3 to 1.8 effective case depth. These are small quantity replacement gears and we had a hard time finding a company that could cut the (16/32 pitch, 30° Pressure Angle, Flat Root Major Diameter Fit with 47teeth and a 74.612 Pitch Ø) spline with a standard broach/shaper at that hardness so, the laser hardening was chosen as a process. (3Q) Looks like your gap /thickness are flipped? (3A) Yes and switching between teeth and gap measurement didn't fix the issue, the nominal for tooth thickness or gap would be inverted not matter which was selected. (4Q) In presentation settings, could you possibly have something flipped ? (4A) I've tried it with material/no material selected and un-selected to no avail. (5S) Might want to fully uninstall when you get a chance and try re-installing. (5A) I haven't tried that but, the fact that I initially run these under an older version back in October of last year and the problem presented its self and then again after I installed the newer version, tells me that is most likely not the problem as it was a clean install and any algorithms skewed in the previous version (if that is what it was) should not be present now. The other issue with downloading and uploading newer versions is time, it takes forever because I have to have IT (that doesn't know anything about gears) with administrative privilege's to download and install everything . 😐 I'm thinking it could be (as you suggested) the skewed profile of the tooth that's causing the calculation and presentation to be in error but, why is what I can't understand. I also have a problem with the over-pin result reporting on one run and then not report on the second run with the same exact gear and zero changes, as mentioned, super glitchy is what I'm thinking 🙄 . If I have the time I'm going to switch to the DIN 5480 and ISO 4156 involute spline types, recalculate/reconfigure the whole plan and try it again. Also going to change from measuring just 3 teeth to measuring 4 or more teeth and see if that helps resolve the issue. Your time is greatly appreciated. It's people like yourself that keeps the world on its axis. 😎 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
[Ch...] Posted January 23 Share Posted January 23 Owen, You're welcome - any time. From the sounds of it, doesn't seem like the profile being a bit skewed on one flank would show these results. It does in fact look like your Gap/thickness values are flip flopped. Have you tried reporting CTT on any other parts ? I ran the numbers for 46T 16/32 DP 30° PA for shown MdR (2.7352) and I get exactly .08365" CTT and 0.1127 CSW which is exactly flipped on your report. The ball/wire size is Ø .1311, is this correct ?? ; seems oddball, not a standard gear wire, etc. Good luck, I'd be curious to hear the cause of this. Cheers. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
[Ow...] Posted January 25 Author Share Posted January 25 Chris, Long story short, I never figured out why the Gap/thickness values are flip flopped. I tried re-creating the program (twice) and using several different standards, Din, ISO, AISE, ANSI, switched between inch/metric, switched between reporting tooth thickness to gap in the evaluation settings and in the global technology settings where you can choose Tooth/Gap measurement (was told by another individual that would fix it) and changed to measuring as many as 8 teeth. The Tooth thickness parameter nominal is derived from the initial spline geometry and if that nominal could be changed on the pitch setup Tooth thickness parameters page, this wouldn’t be a problem but, you can not. 🙄 I did get rid of the glitches of the reports presenting/not-presenting in certain areas by, none other than, restarting the computer. 😉 To answer your question about reporting CTT on other parts, yes many times but, not on a ID spline. The pin Ø is odd (converted from 3.3mm) but is what is on the drawing. Oh well, way too much time spent trying to fix it and I gave up. Appreciate your time calculating the numbers and trying to help. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
[Ch...] Posted January 25 Share Posted January 25 Owen, Wow, definitely unusual. I think Zeiss might find something if they had your .act file ,etc. At any rate, yeah you've spent quite a bit of time on this already. I would definitely suggest doing a full uninstall - including any remnants, etc. and see what happens. If you can share your .act file with me - I'll be happy to see what it says on my side. As long as your MBW is correct, that should be enough info for now to calculate CTT if needed. Good luck. Chris Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
[Ow...] Posted January 29 Author Share Posted January 29 Unfortunately I can't share the .act file.. If this project becomes more than it is, I might trump some heads and do it but, not at this time. Appreciate the help Chris! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
[SO...] Posted March 7 Share Posted March 7 Hello! I encountered a situation, and I hope you can clarify me, maybe someone has experienced it. When I measured the size over the pins, I got differences between the 3DCMM (gear) and micrometer measurements. the difference is 0.030 ÷ 0.040mm. Can someone tell me where this difference comes from? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
[Ch...] Posted March 7 Share Posted March 7 SOFRONIE, The difference could be many reasons. The main issues I find are : 1.) Are you qualifying the R/T axis on the part measured in Calypso. Please research using R/T in Calypso / Gear Pro help file. 2.) Helical gears 3.) teeth with large hob feed marks /scallops Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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