[Mi...] Posted August 1, 2022 Share Posted August 1, 2022 Hello Community, i am currently using a test license for PCM. I am reading a lot about this topic in this forum and reading up online. We have the parts to really take advantage of PCM and my first tests were quite promising. A view posts before (in German) there was a problem described where some of the commands are not usable without a PCM License. This is actually a big Problem for us. We currently have one measuring Machine and an Offline Programming Station. We wanted to have the PCM License only on the Offline Station. Now we asked our Contact at Zeiss what Commands are not usable but he couldn´t answer it. We were advised to buy the License twice so there would be no Problem. The price of one License is not quite cheap let alone two or maybe three if we decide to buy another machine. 😭 My questions: Has someone experience with PCM Programs on Machines without the License? Is it only the command runPCMfile() that is not available ? Are there workarounds that can be used? Am i more concerned than i should be or is it really problematic? Thanks a lot for any advice, Michael Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
[Je...] Posted August 1, 2022 Share Posted August 1, 2022 Please sign in to view this quote. . 🤣 🤣 🤣 🤣 "Just buy it twice to make sure." Sure Uncle, Carl. Sure. I've got a better idea. How about providing PCM functionality with every license of Calypso. It feels like you're selling us a keyboard but asking us to pay extra for the a,s,d,f keys. . . Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
[Is...] Posted August 2, 2022 Share Posted August 2, 2022 ... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
[Is...] Posted August 2, 2022 Share Posted August 2, 2022 Please sign in to view this quote. Naaa… also someone would say that why should I pay for the ö, ü, ä, ñ keys if I don’t use them.. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
[No...] Posted August 2, 2022 Share Posted August 2, 2022 It's quite difficult to say where formulas end and PCM begins, since both are essentially the same thing, but the full PCM allows you to use a programming environment (parameter window, PCM files) in many places while in formula fields you can't use things like if/then etc. There are a few commands that don't work without the full license, but I don't know which. All you can do is test it yourself by temporarily deactivating the license. Then Calypso behaves as if PCM wasn't there. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
[Mi...] Posted August 2, 2022 Author Share Posted August 2, 2022 Personally, I also think that PCM should be included within Standard Calypso. I´d rather invest over 6000 Euros in Equipment then in one Software License. Also, when we maybe buy more machines, this price would accumulate. This is why I asked my question. If it is necessary, we will consider buying. But I need some advice from someone with some experience to make the correct decision in that regard. It is a lot of time for someone, who never worked with Calypso before and has no PCM Training (All Knowledge I have is through experimenting and reading about it), to test possible cases. Everywhere I read about this someone writhes that a few commands don’t work but never which. If you could tell me just some examples you can think of, that would already help me tremendously Maybe I can find a workaround for it. I thought about deactivating the license for testing but was too afraid that I can’t reactivate it because it is only a temporary one. I can do that without worry? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
[No...] Posted August 2, 2022 Share Posted August 2, 2022 Please sign in to view this quote. Well I said that because I read it on the forum a long time ago. Maybe there were examples, but I don't remember, sorry for that. I had PCM from the beginning, so I didn't have to worry about non-working commands. It's hard to remember something somebody else talked about if you're not affected. Please sign in to view this quote. I can't tell you for sure, but judging by the way licenses usually work it should be no problem. Disabling a license in Calypso doesn't invalidate it, it's just ignored. But hey, don't blame me if I was wrong 😮 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
[To...] Posted August 2, 2022 Share Posted August 2, 2022 Please sign in to view this quote. Customer: Why is the price so high? Zeiss: We have included everything you might need. Customer: Why am I paying for something I don't use? 🤣 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
[Mi...] Posted August 2, 2022 Author Share Posted August 2, 2022 Please sign in to view this quote. Please sign in to view this quote. I would really appreciate if you don’t respond like that. It helps in no way.I know this is meant to be funny and ironic but that is not what i am here for. To be able to create a parameter program is part of every other measuring software that I know. So, it is not far stretched to assume this should be included within Calypso. Also, the price is high anyway, even with the excluded PCM (+other functions). Thanks Norbert for helping me out. I will try it. In the case it wouldnt work somehow i will let you know 😉 🙂 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
[Je...] Posted August 2, 2022 Share Posted August 2, 2022 Please sign in to view this quote. . Okay, okay 😉 good points. So, I see that there are two sides to this issue. My opinion is that Zeiss designs certain features as borderline necessity in order to funnel customers towards purchasing the addons. This behavior is not customer-focused. An addon should be segregated when it only truly applies to a niche application. . Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
[To...] Posted August 2, 2022 Share Posted August 2, 2022 Please sign in to view this quote. Maybe Calypso should be sold in two flavors. Plain and Loaded. I actually had telephone conversation with a customer that went full circle. During the conversation he stated both sides of the discussion and when I pointed it out, he basically had a "red faced" moment. We both laughed.... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
[No...] Posted August 3, 2022 Share Posted August 3, 2022 Please sign in to view this quote. If only that were true! Now that GOM belongs to the family, I think it's fair to compare both packages in terms of scripting abilities. In GOM you can control the whole software with Python scripts without extra cost (yet...). You can record and replay every action and get an editable Python script in return. It's almost like recording an Excel macro. In addition, they throw more queryable attributes at you than you can carry. In Calypso however, you pay big time to get a very basic programming environment and a handful of commands to extend the existing formula environment. It was once designed for part family programming, and this it can do. But nowadays most people expect a lot more from a package like this. I know, PCM can do much more if you use undocumented commands and know your way around Smalltalk syntax and internal Calypso functions. But this is not what you're paying for and Zeiss provides no support for that. Moreover, you're skating on thin ice if your programs rely on undocumented stuff, as there's no guarantee that it will still work the same way in future releases. So these things just don't count. In my opinion, you clearly don't get everything you might need. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
[Jo...] Posted August 4, 2022 Share Posted August 4, 2022 I would be happy to just get my list back. I think some of these operators still work without a pcm license, but they make it a pita to type in the commands.no pcm.JPG2018.JPG Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
[Da...] Posted August 5, 2022 Share Posted August 5, 2022 Removing the list is by far the most despicable thing Zeiss has done so far !!! The functions all still work but they removed the list so you can't pick from the list to get the syntax correct. It was there in earlier versions, Now taken away 🤬 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
[Jo...] Posted August 5, 2022 Share Posted August 5, 2022 Please sign in to view this quote. There is a pcm command text file somewhere on this forum. You can copy/paste from it, but still an inconvenience. It is insulting to pay for an update to the software and lose functionality. Shrinkflation Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
[Je...] Posted September 16, 2022 Share Posted September 16, 2022 Michael, I would strongly advise acquiring the license for any PC that will be running PCM. Period. This is due to not only may the functionality change without warning at a service pack, patch or version upgrade but you do not even possess the option to search/troubleshoot any embedded PCM involved if errors are encountered. I can tell you from experience that this can be extremely frustrating as you cannot determine the source of where your problem may be when running in an active environment versus a planner seat. You are likely well aware that certain features, by nature, do not operate the same in simulation the way they do in an active environment (IE continue after missing probing) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
[Jö...] Posted September 19, 2022 Share Posted September 19, 2022 Please sign in to view this quote. Hallo Norbert, könntest Du das mit Gom vielleicht etwas genauer erklären mit dem Aufnehmen eines Scriptes. Wir haben seit neuestem auch ein Gom Scanner und müssen öfters mehrere gleiche Teile Prüfen. Wenn ich es richtig verstanden habe, kann ich ein Scannpfad Aufzeichenen und dann wieder aufrufen. Das alle Teile gleich gemessen werden. Stimmt das so. Vielen dank im Voraus Gruß Jörg Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
[No...] Posted September 20, 2022 Share Posted September 20, 2022 Please sign in to view this quote. Hihi, witzig, meinen eigenen englischen Text ins Deutsche rückübersetzt zu sehen 😃 Kann Google schon so geschliffen formulieren, oder womit ist das gemacht? Vielleicht muss ich mir doch langsam Sorgen vor der Weltherrschaft der KIs machen? 😕 Zu deiner Frage: Einen Scanpfad kann man ja überhaupt nur dann exakt wiederholen, wenn alle Hardware-Komponenten automatisiert sind. Da wir nur ein einfaches Ausleger-Stativ und einen Drehtisch haben, geht das ja nicht, drum habe ich mich damit noch nie näher beschäftigt. Mit einem extra Stativ muss man leider jedesmal alles von Hand einstellen, außer natürlich die Schrittverstellung des Drehtisches. Wobei, es gibt ja auch so ein kleines Stativ mit Motorverstellung, da geht glaube ich noch etwas mehr, ist aber nur für kleinere Teile geeignet. Ich weiß, daß es mit einer Roboter-Messzelle möglich ist, die Messungen exakt zu wiederholen, aber welchen Anteil daran Scripting hat, kann ich nicht sagen. Da gibt es den VMR (Virtueller MessRaum), in dem man die Messung und die Roboterbewegungen vorab mit Modellen plant, so ähnlich wie bei Calypso Planner. Näheres müsstest du direkt bei GOM erfragen. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
[Jö...] Posted September 20, 2022 Share Posted September 20, 2022 Hallo Norbert, erst mal Danke für deine Antwort und die Erklärung dazu. Wir haben auch ein Gom mit einfachen Stativ. Wir haben uns schon erkundigt was der GOMScanbot kostet. (Wir wollen eigentlich keinen Mittelklasse Wagen kaufen. 😃 GomScanbot kostet ca. 60-65 Tausend) Zu deiner frage der Übersetzung, ich klicke nur auf der Forum Seite auf Deutsch übersetzen,und alles ist übersetzt. Was dahinter steckt keine Ahnung. Danke Dir aber noch mal für die Antwort Gruß Jörg Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
[No...] Posted September 21, 2022 Share Posted September 21, 2022 Please sign in to view this quote. Den Scanbot fände ich auch interessant, wenn er nur nicht so klein wäre 🤠 Das Geld wäre bei uns aktuell gar nicht so das Problem, da wir sowieso gerade neue Messmaschinen beschaffen wollen. Aber seit wir den GOM haben, sind die KMG-Messungen eindeutig rückläufig. Nur für automatisierte Serienmessungen brauchen wir sie halt immer noch, weil das Bedienpersonal mit GOM überfordert wäre und auch nicht den Durchsatz an Prüfungen schaffen könnte. Da wäre so ein Roboter ideal, nur die Scanboxen sind dann schon wieder eine Nummer zu groß. Wo gibt es denn den Übersetzungslink? Der ist mir noch gar nicht aufgefallen. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
[Jö...] Posted September 21, 2022 Share Posted September 21, 2022 Hallo Norbert, der Übersetzungs link kommt bei mir automatisch sobald ich auf die Seite im Forum gehe. Ich benutze den Microsoft Edge Browser siehe Bild Gruß Jörg2022-09-21 15_35_56-Window.png Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
[No...] Posted September 21, 2022 Share Posted September 21, 2022 Ach so, dann läuft das nicht übers Forum, sondern über den Browser bzw. Microsoft. Das habe ich wahrscheinlich ganz am Anfang mal permanent weggeklickt. 😉 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
[Jö...] Posted September 21, 2022 Share Posted September 21, 2022 Hi Norbert, Du kannst auch die rechte Maustaste, und dann auf Deutsch Übersetzen klicken. Das geht auch. Auch bei Google Chrome. Gruß Jörg Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
[No...] Posted September 22, 2022 Share Posted September 22, 2022 Cool, hatte ich bis jetzt übersehen. 😎 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
[Ri...] Posted September 22, 2022 Share Posted September 22, 2022 Separation of Functions is the direction all Companies are going. Even BMW now offers heated seats, heated Steering Wheel, Headlight Options, etc. But you have to pay a monthly fee for each option. Its happening in other countries, expect it to happen here too. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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