[Ri...] Posted June 5, 2021 Share Posted June 5, 2021 Hello, Does anyone know how to pull the delta value for the Secondary Alignments into a Result Element? Link to comment https://qualityforum.zeiss.com/topic/11472-delta-value-for-secondary-alignments/ Share on other sites More sharing options...
[SH...] Posted June 5, 2021 Share Posted June 5, 2021 difference System () valueA will not work?. Due to covid positive , I am under quarantine now so can't verify it. Link to comment https://qualityforum.zeiss.com/topic/11472-delta-value-for-secondary-alignments/#findComment-56698 Share on other sites More sharing options...
[Ri...] Posted June 5, 2021 Author Share Posted June 5, 2021 I get 0 as the value, with and without the name of the coordinate system in the field. I hope you have a speedy recovery. Link to comment https://qualityforum.zeiss.com/topic/11472-delta-value-for-secondary-alignments/#findComment-56700 Share on other sites More sharing options...
[Cl...] Posted June 7, 2021 Share Posted June 7, 2021 I have no idea, but found this. What does Euler mean? Link to comment https://qualityforum.zeiss.com/topic/11472-delta-value-for-secondary-alignments/#findComment-56702 Share on other sites More sharing options...
[To...] Posted June 7, 2021 Share Posted June 7, 2021 Please sign in to view this quote. Google Translate says Euler in German is Euler in English....LOL Link to comment https://qualityforum.zeiss.com/topic/11472-delta-value-for-secondary-alignments/#findComment-56704 Share on other sites More sharing options...
[Cl...] Posted June 7, 2021 Share Posted June 7, 2021 I did that, but I still really don't know what it means? Link to comment https://qualityforum.zeiss.com/topic/11472-delta-value-for-secondary-alignments/#findComment-56706 Share on other sites More sharing options...
[Ja...] Posted June 7, 2021 Share Posted June 7, 2021 Euler values are basically angles (showing orientation of part with respect to coordinate system). Euler is the name of the mathematician so no difference in translation there. Link to comment https://qualityforum.zeiss.com/topic/11472-delta-value-for-secondary-alignments/#findComment-56708 Share on other sites More sharing options...
[Cl...] Posted June 7, 2021 Share Posted June 7, 2021 At first glance I thought it might have something to do with the original question. Link to comment https://qualityforum.zeiss.com/topic/11472-delta-value-for-secondary-alignments/#findComment-56710 Share on other sites More sharing options...
[Ja...] Posted June 7, 2021 Share Posted June 7, 2021 I have seen zero delta values for base alignments that have features such as plane, cylinder, etc. because iterations are not required for such alignments. But when we use other types of alignment strategies to follow some datum target points/areas where we would need iterations to get the alignment in best condition as possible (RPS alignments, using points instead of features,etc.), you will see a non-zero delta values. And I believe it to be true for secondary alignments as well. So that's a probable cause for zero delta value that Richard was looking at. Link to comment https://qualityforum.zeiss.com/topic/11472-delta-value-for-secondary-alignments/#findComment-56712 Share on other sites More sharing options...
[Ow...] Posted June 7, 2021 Share Posted June 7, 2021 The difference System () valueA is just for looping, I think? Does the secondary alignment show on your default report? Wouldn't getActual("2nd Alignment1").valueA work in the result element? Not running anything I can check it on. Link to comment https://qualityforum.zeiss.com/topic/11472-delta-value-for-secondary-alignments/#findComment-56714 Share on other sites More sharing options...
[Da...] Posted June 7, 2021 Share Posted June 7, 2021 (edited) Please sign in to view this quote. What Owen said: https://qualityforum.zeiss.com/topic/19164-better-fit-for-secondary-alignments/?do=findComment&comment=107800 Edited November 18, 2024 replaced link from messtechnik zu qualityforum Link to comment https://qualityforum.zeiss.com/topic/11472-delta-value-for-secondary-alignments/#findComment-56716 Share on other sites More sharing options...
[Ri...] Posted June 7, 2021 Author Share Posted June 7, 2021 Awesome - Thank you all. Another question, is the delta value for Secondary Alignment based on its difference to the Base Alignment or to the alignment the features are measured to? Link to comment https://qualityforum.zeiss.com/topic/11472-delta-value-for-secondary-alignments/#findComment-56718 Share on other sites More sharing options...
[Th...] Posted June 7, 2021 Share Posted June 7, 2021 I believe it's a delta to the base alignment. It's been a long time since I tried to look at that, but I think the delta values I saw were far too large to be anything but. Link to comment https://qualityforum.zeiss.com/topic/11472-delta-value-for-secondary-alignments/#findComment-56720 Share on other sites More sharing options...
[Ri...] Posted June 7, 2021 Author Share Posted June 7, 2021 Please sign in to view this quote. Dang - OK. I'm trying to create an iterative secondary alignment, and also report the delta value for those. Make sense why I was seeing some HUGE numbers. Link to comment https://qualityforum.zeiss.com/topic/11472-delta-value-for-secondary-alignments/#findComment-56722 Share on other sites More sharing options...
[Ma...] Posted June 7, 2021 Share Posted June 7, 2021 I am not sure if you can make TRUE iterative alignment same as base alignment. I tried once and it was same like measuring element in loop - no changes. But i can be wrong Link to comment https://qualityforum.zeiss.com/topic/11472-delta-value-for-secondary-alignments/#findComment-56724 Share on other sites More sharing options...
[Th...] Posted June 7, 2021 Share Posted June 7, 2021 Yes, this is what I remember as well. Looping a secondary never resulted in a change in the delta value. Link to comment https://qualityforum.zeiss.com/topic/11472-delta-value-for-secondary-alignments/#findComment-56726 Share on other sites More sharing options...
[Cl...] Posted June 7, 2021 Share Posted June 7, 2021 Please sign in to view this quote. Do you think that is because the looped base alignment corrections made any subsequent secondary alignment that much better, and a loop wasn't needed? Link to comment https://qualityforum.zeiss.com/topic/11472-delta-value-for-secondary-alignments/#findComment-56728 Share on other sites More sharing options...
[Th...] Posted June 7, 2021 Share Posted June 7, 2021 Please sign in to view this quote. I think that the established secondary coordinate system simply isn't updated based on the actual probing. From what I remember, the delta value didn't change at all. Even if it were due to increased probing accuracy, I would expect to see fluctuations within the bounds allowed by the machine's MPE. Link to comment https://qualityforum.zeiss.com/topic/11472-delta-value-for-secondary-alignments/#findComment-56730 Share on other sites More sharing options...
[Ma...] Posted June 7, 2021 Share Posted June 7, 2021 If is anyone interested in iterative secondary alignment, then you must create additional elements used in secondary alignment with setted secondary alignment in element. Then you create third alignment with this additionaly created elements. Only by this you can use change from secondary as iterative. Hope everyone understand this 🤣 1 Link to comment https://qualityforum.zeiss.com/topic/11472-delta-value-for-secondary-alignments/#findComment-56732 Share on other sites More sharing options...
[Ri...] Posted June 7, 2021 Author Share Posted June 7, 2021 Please sign in to view this quote. Exactly. This is what I do. Was hoping for a way to report the delta value though. I wonder if I report the absolute change between alignment 1, and loop if that would give me what I want. Link to comment https://qualityforum.zeiss.com/topic/11472-delta-value-for-secondary-alignments/#findComment-56734 Share on other sites More sharing options...
[Er...] Posted June 7, 2021 Share Posted June 7, 2021 Please sign in to view this quote. Ah. So a Base Alignment with it's features. Alignment1 with it's own features referencing the Base Alignment. Alignment2 with it's own features referencing Alignment1 Link to comment https://qualityforum.zeiss.com/topic/11472-delta-value-for-secondary-alignments/#findComment-56736 Share on other sites More sharing options...
[Ri...] Posted June 8, 2021 Author Share Posted June 8, 2021 Yep. It is a nice feature to be able to do. Link to comment https://qualityforum.zeiss.com/topic/11472-delta-value-for-secondary-alignments/#findComment-56738 Share on other sites More sharing options...
[To...] Posted December 6, 2021 Share Posted December 6, 2021 I assume this means a plain, simple loop with no condition does not improve itself? Link to comment https://qualityforum.zeiss.com/topic/11472-delta-value-for-secondary-alignments/#findComment-56740 Share on other sites More sharing options...
[Cl...] Posted December 6, 2021 Share Posted December 6, 2021 Please sign in to view this quote. One of the applications engineers at Zeiss that does quite a bit of work with/for us. Told me (and I've seen him do it) that a loop with no condition WILL improve itself. In addition I can verify that it does improve after one or two iterations. Link to comment https://qualityforum.zeiss.com/topic/11472-delta-value-for-secondary-alignments/#findComment-56742 Share on other sites More sharing options...
[To...] Posted December 6, 2021 Share Posted December 6, 2021 Please sign in to view this quote. Thanks Gilbert. Just to confirm, you're talking about secondary alignments???? Link to comment https://qualityforum.zeiss.com/topic/11472-delta-value-for-secondary-alignments/#findComment-56744 Share on other sites More sharing options...
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