[Za...] Posted April 24, 2020 Share Posted April 24, 2020 Hello all, how would I go about setting up this callout in Calypso? The perpendicularity callout is just a thread to plane. I'm more concerned with the Projected Tolerance. Link to comment https://qualityforum.zeiss.com/topic/15860-projected-tolerance-zone/ Share on other sites More sharing options...
[To...] Posted April 24, 2020 Share Posted April 24, 2020 Normally, the evaluation length of the perpendicularity equals the length of the feature. In this case, it appears to be a cylinder due to the diameter symbol. If they add a projection, I think it would be safe to increase the "depth" field of your cylinder by adding 12.70 to it. If you're working from a model, the original depth from the model would be the full length or depth plus 12.70. If you created the cylinder by manually probing it, the cylinder depth will only be the difference in height between the lowest and highest point. However, you could also edit this to be the real depth or total length of the cylinder from the drawing plus 12.70. Link to comment https://qualityforum.zeiss.com/topic/15860-projected-tolerance-zone/#findComment-86946 Share on other sites More sharing options...
[Za...] Posted April 24, 2020 Author Share Posted April 24, 2020 Please sign in to view this quote. Perfect, I believe I was on the right track, but I wanted to make sure I was doing it correctly. So if the full Cylinder is 13.86mm, I can add the 12.70 to that in this box and it will evaluate the characteristic correctly? Link to comment https://qualityforum.zeiss.com/topic/15860-projected-tolerance-zone/#findComment-86948 Share on other sites More sharing options...
[SH...] Posted April 24, 2020 Share Posted April 24, 2020 Please sign in to view this quote. It is a wrong FCF,it should be like this....IMG_20200424_233818.jpg Link to comment https://qualityforum.zeiss.com/topic/15860-projected-tolerance-zone/#findComment-86950 Share on other sites More sharing options...
[To...] Posted April 24, 2020 Share Posted April 24, 2020 Please sign in to view this quote. Zach, my bad. I went into Calypso to do a screenshot of the P in the Perpendicularity characteristic, but I inadvertently selected my plane as my feature and the cylinder as my datum feature. To my surprise, the P was missing. I thought I was going crazy as I was pretty sure I had seen it before. After seeing your post, I went back in and noticed my error. So, you've already figured everything out....LOL So, according to the picture I posted, the projected tolerance zone is equal to the P value and does not include the cylinder. But if it passes with the combination, it has to pass with a shorter evaluation range. Link to comment https://qualityforum.zeiss.com/topic/15860-projected-tolerance-zone/#findComment-86952 Share on other sites More sharing options...
[To...] Posted April 24, 2020 Share Posted April 24, 2020 Please sign in to view this quote. Link to comment https://qualityforum.zeiss.com/topic/15860-projected-tolerance-zone/#findComment-86954 Share on other sites More sharing options...
[Za...] Posted April 24, 2020 Author Share Posted April 24, 2020 Please sign in to view this quote. I've seen that 'P' a million times and never knew I could click on it to change that value. Thank you for your help. Link to comment https://qualityforum.zeiss.com/topic/15860-projected-tolerance-zone/#findComment-86956 Share on other sites More sharing options...
[To...] Posted April 24, 2020 Share Posted April 24, 2020 Please sign in to view this quote. I must have revised this post while you were replying to it. I added a comment saying that you only need to use the 12.70, according to the picture I posted for Shabu. But if you keep the combined total length plus projected length, it'll certainly pass at 12.70. Technically for perpendicularity, the location of the tolerance zone along the axis of the cylinder is not relevant. In Calypso, it shows the yellow arrow reflecting the length of the evaluation zone, which defaults to the length/depth of the cylinder. So, using 12.70, whether it's shown coming from the bottom of the cylinder or from Datum A or 10 miles up, the perpendicularity result is the same. Have covid19-free weekend, month, year, LIFE... Link to comment https://qualityforum.zeiss.com/topic/15860-projected-tolerance-zone/#findComment-86958 Share on other sites More sharing options...
[SH...] Posted April 25, 2020 Share Posted April 25, 2020 Please sign in to view this quote. I was talking about the placement of projected tolerance zone in the feature control frame, it should be placed in the second compartment of the feature control frame followed by geometrical tolerances. He placed it in a separate compartment, that is not allowed. Link to comment https://qualityforum.zeiss.com/topic/15860-projected-tolerance-zone/#findComment-86960 Share on other sites More sharing options...
[SH...] Posted April 25, 2020 Share Posted April 25, 2020 Please sign in to view this quote. Your words are difficult to digest.Perpendicularity tolerance zone is placed perpendicular to the datum feature simulator of datum A, not along the axis of unrelated actual mating envelope of the feature.Placement of the perpendicularity tolerances zone has significant impact in the fitment.IMG_20200425_070318.jpg Link to comment https://qualityforum.zeiss.com/topic/15860-projected-tolerance-zone/#findComment-86962 Share on other sites More sharing options...
[Da...] Posted April 25, 2020 Share Posted April 25, 2020 [/quote] Your words are difficult to digest.Perpendicularity tolerance zone is placed perpendicular to the datum feature simulator of datum A, not along the axis of unrelated actual mating envelope of the feature.Placement of the perpendicularity tolerances zone has significant impact in the fitment. [/quote] You are talking about the envelope rule they are talk about projection of the feature two completely different things. Link to comment https://qualityforum.zeiss.com/topic/15860-projected-tolerance-zone/#findComment-86964 Share on other sites More sharing options...
[SH...] Posted April 25, 2020 Share Posted April 25, 2020 Please sign in to view this quote. Your words are difficult to digest.Perpendicularity tolerance zone is placed perpendicular to the datum feature simulator of datum A, not along the axis of unrelated actual mating envelope of the feature.Placement of the perpendicularity tolerances zone has significant impact in the fitment. [/quote] You are talking about the envelope rule they are talk about projection of the feature two completely different things. [/quote] Mr.Tom Oakes told we can place the tolerance zone anywhere along the axis of the feature, this Is what I objected.I am not talking about envelope principles. Link to comment https://qualityforum.zeiss.com/topic/15860-projected-tolerance-zone/#findComment-86966 Share on other sites More sharing options...
[An...] Posted April 25, 2020 Share Posted April 25, 2020 Please sign in to view this quote. Well,I think he's right.Contribution_25_04_2020_1.pdf Link to comment https://qualityforum.zeiss.com/topic/15860-projected-tolerance-zone/#findComment-86968 Share on other sites More sharing options...
[SH...] Posted April 25, 2020 Share Posted April 25, 2020 Please sign in to view this quote. I attached my hand sketch photos, sorry for the poor clarity.my first photo is without projected tolerance zone in that case job is ok. In the second photo due to the project tolerances on part,it is subjected to rejection, because the part axis is not with in the tolerance zone, only tolerance zone is project not entire feature is projected.Your projecting entire feature. My conclusion, projected tolerance zone should be perpendicular to the datum feature simulator A, axis is along to the related actual mating envelope of the feature..IMG20200425165441.jpg Link to comment https://qualityforum.zeiss.com/topic/15860-projected-tolerance-zone/#findComment-86970 Share on other sites More sharing options...
[An...] Posted April 25, 2020 Share Posted April 25, 2020 Shabu,take a class! See attached.Shabu_1.pdf Link to comment https://qualityforum.zeiss.com/topic/15860-projected-tolerance-zone/#findComment-86972 Share on other sites More sharing options...
[SH...] Posted April 25, 2020 Share Posted April 25, 2020 Please sign in to view this quote. I can understand what you are saying, but this is the way projected tolerance zone is explained in y 14.5 standard. if it is projected along the axis, then there is no need of projected tolerance Zone in my knowledge. It would cause a fitment problem in the assembly!!IMG_20200425_193420.jpg Link to comment https://qualityforum.zeiss.com/topic/15860-projected-tolerance-zone/#findComment-86974 Share on other sites More sharing options...
[An...] Posted April 25, 2020 Share Posted April 25, 2020 Please sign in to view this quote. Yes! When it comes to perpendicularity there is definitely no need of Projected Tolerance !!! But when it comes to "True Position" there could be a need of Projected Tolerance !!! End of thread. Link to comment https://qualityforum.zeiss.com/topic/15860-projected-tolerance-zone/#findComment-86976 Share on other sites More sharing options...
[Da...] Posted April 26, 2020 Share Posted April 26, 2020 Projection tolerance is not talking about the feature it is talking about where the feature projects to. There is a big need to Projection tolerances zones they are rarely used but they do have a big purpose. I used them all the time in Jet Engineer Transmission. Double ended bearing sets would define the Axis and then that Axis is projected to the Gear interface. This is lots about Projection in the ASME Y14.5m - 2009 and ASME Y14.5 - 2018 standard If you don't understand this then get some good GD&T training Thanks DannyCapture.JPG Link to comment https://qualityforum.zeiss.com/topic/15860-projected-tolerance-zone/#findComment-86978 Share on other sites More sharing options...
[Da...] Posted April 26, 2020 Share Posted April 26, 2020 Please sign in to view this quote. I 100% disagree there are places when projecting Perpendicularity is need and should be used. Link to comment https://qualityforum.zeiss.com/topic/15860-projected-tolerance-zone/#findComment-86980 Share on other sites More sharing options...
[Da...] Posted April 26, 2020 Share Posted April 26, 2020 ISO 1101 use it also See attachedCapture2.PNGCapture1.PNGCapture.PNG Link to comment https://qualityforum.zeiss.com/topic/15860-projected-tolerance-zone/#findComment-86982 Share on other sites More sharing options...
[To...] Posted April 26, 2020 Share Posted April 26, 2020 Please sign in to view this quote. I understand translation of words is sometime difficult. Yes, the perpendicularity tolerance zone is perpendicular to A, but the location of the tolerance zone along the axis is not relevant. The evaluation length is the same no matter where it is. See attached.Perp Tol Zone.pdf Link to comment https://qualityforum.zeiss.com/topic/15860-projected-tolerance-zone/#findComment-86984 Share on other sites More sharing options...
[To...] Posted April 26, 2020 Share Posted April 26, 2020 Please sign in to view this quote. Sorry, I misread your post. However, I have seen many drawings where the P is located in either the FCF or underneath it. Could this be from an older version of Y14.5? Link to comment https://qualityforum.zeiss.com/topic/15860-projected-tolerance-zone/#findComment-86986 Share on other sites More sharing options...
[SH...] Posted April 26, 2020 Share Posted April 26, 2020 Please sign in to view this quote. Ok, I got it. Mr.Andreas cleared my wrong perception... Link to comment https://qualityforum.zeiss.com/topic/15860-projected-tolerance-zone/#findComment-86988 Share on other sites More sharing options...
[An...] Posted April 27, 2020 Share Posted April 27, 2020 Please sign in to view this quote. See attached.Contribution_27_04_2020_1.pdf Link to comment https://qualityforum.zeiss.com/topic/15860-projected-tolerance-zone/#findComment-86990 Share on other sites More sharing options...
[SH...] Posted April 27, 2020 Share Posted April 27, 2020 Sorry for the interruption,I think projected tolerance zone is being used for the proper fitment of the job we are checking and matting part. It might in significant from the perspective of the job we are checking. But if we visualise the assembly of the mating part, using projected tolerance zone can avoid the interference of the bolt or screw with the mating part .I think it only useful when the thickness of the mating part is greater than the depth of the hole we are checking. Link to comment https://qualityforum.zeiss.com/topic/15860-projected-tolerance-zone/#findComment-86992 Share on other sites More sharing options...
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